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What is the most versatile civilization?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Bizrock, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    I haven't played every Civ yet (it's a marathon thing lol), though I have played most from Vanilla; and I think some that are being overlooked so far here is both Greeces. That extra wildcard slot from the get go is kick ass for getting you off to a flier which will help with any victory condition.
    And while I like getting good relations with lots of CS's, it's Sparta's ability of getting heaps of early culture against barbs that is a real killer, getting you to Political Philosophy really quickly.
     
  2. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Chieftain

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    Yeah it has to be Greece, the extra wildcard slot is the definition of versatile.

    That said, i'd like to make a case for Spain. They can dominate land and sea with conquistadors and armadas and there are always continents around to exploit. Sending mass trade routes can create flourishing cities anywhere on the map. Lastly, missions provide faith for anything from inquisitors to great people.
     
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  3. Bizrock

    Bizrock Chieftain

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    I think most of people didn't get the meaning of versatility, this is the most accurate answer
     
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  4. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Chieftain

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    For me, versatile civ are those strong in both production, gold and/or faith, as well as have advantage over GPs.

    Production is king for both science and domination.
    Gold is needed for obvious reasons. As in gold can buy anything.
    Faith is obviously needed for religious victory, and somehow can also tie up with cultural (via religious tourism + Cristo Redentor + faith buying GP).

    With these in mind, I think the most versatile civs are:
    Russia
    Germany
    Nubia
    Australia
    Netherlands
    Brazil
    Poland
    Scythia
    Persia
     
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  5. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Well, basically the more you need going for you, the less versatile you are, because it just takes something going wrong to knock you out of contention. The more conditionals and "ifs" you have, the worse it is. That's why Civs like Rome, Germany, and Greece are versatile. These things will generally benefit you almost regardless of situation. They always work. Arabia always gets a religion and China can get whatever wonder they want aside from Stonehenge. That's going to carry them far.

    Civs that have their bonuses depending on a religion, or a continent cannot be versatile because some things can happen out of your control that will set you behind. (Sorry Spain!) So that leaves civs like England and America out right off the bat.

    On the other hand, you can see a civ like Russia who can go for religion but even if that should fail, they still have great writers to fall back on, as well as trade routes giving more science.

    There seems to be a frequenting recurring theme in Civ discussions to count the amount of types of victories that a civ can go for, but I think this isn't very accurate because honestly, if you secure a dominating position, ANY civ, can win any kind of victory. And not all victories are equal too. So, Korea isn't just pigeonholed into a science victory just because they're good at science. They're also good at winning culture too, since science helps a lot with winning culture.....

    The problem with Brazil is that the rainforests eventually become poor tiles, and the Great Person thing only works if you're succesful in getting great people. If you're beaten to great people, Pedro's ability does nothing to help you catch up so what happens is that Brazil looks really strong when ahead, but doesn't really seem like much when behind. I think it's more of a "win harder" mechanic.

    They do have a sick battleship though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    No, that’s your meaning, improvise, adapt, overcome. Nothing to do with victory conditions despite then saying it is.:crazyeye:
    If they didn’t get that then they didn’t read your first thread very well.
     
  7. Portinou

    Portinou Chieftain

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    After a couple of playthroughs, I definitely add Crees to this list. The only condition is 2-3 camps/pastures in your capital or second city. On turn 150, you get so much production that you can go whatever path you want. Though it requires a bit more plan than the other ones.
     
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  8. isau

    isau Warlord

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    It might almost be easier to list which civs are not versatile. I think a pretty good case can be made for the versatility of most of them. Really what it sounds like folks are debating is effectiveness, not versatility per se.

    A compounding factor is that elements that would appear to gear a civ toward Domination victory handily bleed over into also providing benefits for the other victory types. Being able to knock other players from the game with force is always going to be a "versatile" characteristic, whether you actually kill everyone else or not. I suppose you could argue, though, that a civ with strong combat abilities wastes its bonuses if it never attacks, and some people may see that as "less versatile."

    In comparison, Religious Victory elements tend to not bleed over to other areas of the game so readily, although there are some exceptions. A good example of an exception is Spain and Poland, who have access to an easy way to generate Golden Ages via their religion flipping abilities in the middle of war. I don't know that I'd call a steamroll-for-Golden-Age-points strategy "versatile," but it can certainly be effective, and has applications beyond the obvious goals of war or religion spreading on their face.

    The least versatile civ in the game is Kongo, since it is the only civ that cannot complete the Religious Victory. It's still a strong civ with excellent bonuses though.
     
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  9. Esperr

    Esperr Chieftain

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    Australia. Even after the nerf my group still has them banned in MP because theyre you but just better. Having +7 campus right away not only rocketa them ahead in tech but frees up early production for other things. Not to mention in SP the random joint war DOW just helps them.the outback station isn't in the top 3 best UI, bit its pretty good. The fact that they are a science and money monster makes them just good at everything. They are a jack of all good trades.

    Gorgo is up there because of the policy slot, and having cheap theatres is really important in R and F, getting free envoys as well is a big deal for maxing yellow and,blue city states early to rack up bonuses. This makes them good for any victory type.

    Korea, because they excel at science, which can trump all and leads to any victory condition. Having cheap high bonus campus also frees up early production like Australia.

    These are just off the top of my head.
     
  10. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Well I'm confused. I guess I don't see much difference between versatility and an ability to improvise, adapt, overcome. And surely with the end goal of a victory in mind?

    I still can't go past Greece (boring as my answer may be) as the extra wildcard slot the whole game is the very definition of versatility than can be geared towards any victory. Possibly the combo of another leader's entire traits might go past that...but I doubt it. Almost all UU are about warfare; and UI's tend to be also focused on one or two area's of the game that they cannot change.
     
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  11. Portinou

    Portinou Chieftain

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    Versatility to me means be able to pursue reliably with equivalent chances any kind of victory type in any starting position with warmongering or peace. So not so many civs are so versatile. The key here is ability to generate big production mid-game.

    Top versatility tier:
    Rome
    Australia
    Germany
    Cree

    Tier 2
    Aztec
    Indonesia
    Nubia
    England
    Arabia

    Most civs in the middle

    Limited to one synergy between 2 victory factors
    Spain (religion-military)
    Khmer (religion-culture)
    Gorgo (culture-military)
    Russia (religion-culture)

    Not versatile at all (limited to 1 victory type or 1 strategy)
    Macedon
    Zulu
    Mongols
    Korea
    Scotland
    Scythia
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    You mean the 4 standard victory conditions provided by the game? The only time I play to them is GOTM because I have to. Versatility is the ability to cope with different situations. If the OP had standard victory conditions in mind they should have been mentioned or my mind just discards them.
     
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  13. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Granted. Without the victory conditions in mind however I think much of this discussion is meaningless.
     
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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Then the versatility is futile, it’s gilgamesh, Monty, Alex, Tomyris blah blah blah.
    I would venture that with victory conditions in mind versatility is meaningless because the VC are primarily based on the early OP civs and we already know the answer... again. Zzzzz
    It’s just thread after thread of top tier civs, little versatility of thought required.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  15. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Yeah, but OP-ness is often based around one VC, and not the other three - think Mongolia and Macedon for instance (as they should be!) That isn't versatility. I'm not saying they don't have any ability to cross over into other VC's...but they certainly aren't OP in them.

    VC's give us more black and white metrics by which we can judge versatility. We can have a conversation about versatility without referring to VC's; but it will be much more subjective than a conversation with VC's in mind will be or should be.
     
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Sorry, if you want to be objective then it’s OP war civs. Gilga or Monty will outstrip others for ALL VC’s
    Subjectivity is what this game is all about IMO.

    Now if you were to wrap in there... peaceful victory, the entire list changes.
    But no, no specification at all

    How about OCC? France is mighty awesome at that.

    Nope, just “what’s versatile” which I have zero issue with until they turn around and add comments later which is where this started. @Bizrock sort of chastising people for not knowing what’s in his head. Everyone knows what versatile means.

    I,m gonna leave it now because I suspect it will continue otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  17. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Chieftain

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    Yes, it does

    aaand speaking of spies, does anyone know how the listening post mission works? Does it give diplomatic visibility while you're running then you lose it once finished or it give you a permanent +1 visibility level once you finish it? Do I need to keep the spy running the mission over and over again or run it once and you're set?
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes, need to keep running it.
     
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  19. Portinou

    Portinou Chieftain

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    What about my answer where Alex and Tomyris are bottom of the list and Gilgamesh a middle tier one?
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I have no issue with your list or answer.
     

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