What is the point to ages?

[Grey Knight]

Is it just me, or have ages pretty much removed any strategy to doing research? There seems to be only two tradeoffs - steel vs horseback riding in the ancient era, and mech inf vs modern armor in the modern era. Other than this, there doesn't seem to be any real cost for taking an odd path. Even in 1.16 tech devaluation meant that you paid little penalty for bypassing a tech in the interest of another. Ages compound this further, since the tech tree is really four small shrubs. Even if you had a different path earlier, once you get to the next age everyone is on the same playing field yet again.

I think the combat model exacerbates this -- even if you are in the middle ages, if you send enough horsemen at a target it will die. Sure they are only 50% as effective as knights, but their cost is 57% of a knight also. By not researching chivalary, I save 320 in research cost!

I dunno if this will break anything or not, but I think the fix is to mark most everything as "not required for era advancement", and have prerequisites span ages (i.e. to get engineering you have to have construction). The other option would be to double the size of the eras, allowing more strategic depth in each era.

Strategy-less tech tree. What's the point?

Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Hamlet]

Errrmm, am I being grossly stupid, or wasn't there 'ages' in Civ 2?

 

[muppet]

I vaguely remember 'ages' in civ2.

I vaguely remember 'ages' did not limit tech progression along a branch. At least if it did, it was not to the same extent that 'age's does in Civ3.

The problem with the Civ3 tech tree and 'ages' combination is that it makes little to no difference which branch a player chooses. The world as a whole, and almost every single civ will progress along ALL branches plus/minus a single tech.

Add to this, the high rate of tech trade and devaluation, and you could almost fire a dart at the tech tree. Close eyes. Point. Click.

 

[Mapache]

In Civ3 you need Horseback Riding to research Electronics. I don't remember if that was the case in Civ2.
In general the tech tree in Civ3 is pointless. I wholeheartedly agree with muppet.

 

[Carver]

Mapache, that was FIRAXIS' point in creating eras. They exist to makes sure you have all the low level tech before creating ICBMs. ICBMs without the tech for pottery would be weird. They thought it would add "balance" to prevent people from just b-lining to the key tech they wanted. I myself think this should be toggleable though.

 

[Chieftess]

I guess they both have their advantages and disadvantages. With Civ2's tech tree, it was possible to be years ahead in research, without worrying about anyone catching up (I don't know if research time was shorter because another civ had a tech you were researching). But, Civ3 is somewhat realistic in that research time decreases (i.e., people that come to your civ - tourists, dignataries, etc., might bring some object requiring a particular tech. Like, say clay jars, which might speed up pottery). But, you shouldn't be able to speed up research if you haven't met anyone yet (so, you wouldn't even know about the tech.). Civ3 kind of evens the playing field, so to speak, but atleast you need resources (if you only have iron and horses, you're stuck with antiquity units).

The plus side about Civ3 is that there's some techs that you don't have to research (monoarchy, republic etc.), which is a bit more realistic, and can provide a slight challenge if you want it.

Also, the ages (as they are now) seem to make wonders obsolete even quicker.

One addition that I would like to see (besides the old tech tree) is to have units gain a stat bonus (as well as a "long range bonus" vs. a unit from a lower era. (i.e., spearmen should *NEVER* be able to defeat - or nearly defeat - modern armor, marines etc. (which happened in a game I played!)). Each era could have a stat multiplier (antiquity = 1, Middle Ages = 2, Indust. = 3, Modern = 4, "Future" = 5).

The long range bonus should be an "attack first" bonus (archers, gunpowder units - middle to modern, etc.), since units on foot won't be able to reach these units at the start of the battle.

(BTW, I also had an enemy galley dent my battleship!).