I must say again: Donsig is right, we are before two different games, not just two ways to play the same game. And I do understand DaveShack concern, he fears that a split in the community would make the two games void of people. But that "split" is just illusory, people who likes the civ shall play it, people who likes the roleplay shall play it, and people who likes both shall play both. I , as one, will not play the "roleplay" (with or without a civ game). (I played this last one just to check if the rules were "good" ; I thought they weren't until the moment I realized two different games). And the "half way" is just... you whip or not, you destroy one AI just to be one less remaining or not. I say, let's try.