What makes the AI continue to plot against you?

[Shiffmeister]

Hi,

On several occasions I've had a civ (last time it was Ragnar) plotting against me at cautious, so I changed into his religion, making him pleased with me.
At that time i begged a few coins, and he gave it to me, resulting in a peace treaty of 10 turns. The red fist didn't disappear, so i conluded wrongly that he was not plotting against me.

However, 10 turns later, he still declared war on me.
Usually I see the red fist disappear when someone's plotting against me, and i beg some money. What makes the AI decide to continue plotting in the background?

 

[elmurcis]

Well, from my understanding as far as it has proven before. If AI started to plot, it won't change that until actual war is going on (or something else happen.. somebody vassal target civ or something else?). Even if you manage to get to friendly you still will be target IF you are target (main question most times). 100% sure only if fist turns on when deny demand or there are noone else to attack for AI
Same time it can be totally different civ too not just human. Reason why its really important to know who is who worst enemy in this case. One more "legal trick" is to check espionage points spending from AI side - most times "target civ" will get more espionage points than others (you can see it under espionage screen on that table).
Also there are situations when you don't know 3rd civilization yet so you have no idea who Ai is at war (or ploting against..)... well, not exactly if you know atleast 2 civilizations knowing each other. If you click in F4 relations screen on 3rd leader head, mousing over 2nd leader will show to who (s)he is worst enemy and if its on war with somebody (even if you don't know that civ yet).
All you can do if AI actually going for you... pray ofcourse and a lot... and sacrifise some guys to your gods... best with some 50'000 slaves like Monty

 

[Gator Country]

Ragnar is one of the leaders who can plot against you at Pleased. Most of the leaders can't do that, but there are few who can. This guide is very useful -

Civ Illustrated #1 (Know Your Enemy)

 

[elitetroops]

The question here was about why an AI would continue despite a peace deal, not about why he plots at pleased/friendly.

I've wondered the same once. Usually they stop plotting when you make a successful beg. But it did happen once that an AI was plotting and I begged for gold to get a peace deal. While we had the peace deal his army marched right into my lands and was hanging around my border cities, then he declared once the peace deal was cancelled. Seemed to me like a bug at the time, the way his stack just walked into my lands and was pointlessly walking back and forth between 2 of my cities for the duration of the peace deal.

 

[pob]

The same has happened to me before, but the code divers say it isn't possible for an AI to plot against you if you have a peace treaty, so he must have switched targets and then reverted to you after the peace treaty expired.

 

[elmurcis]

Do you all wanna say that it should cancel plot against me if I ask Ai for 1 gold if that is possible? Really?
I used that 10 turns to whip up walls/best defenders in border cities/counter attackers inside because AI always attacked me anyway. Its something new if sometimes that change something...

 

[Kaitzilla]

Once an AI starts plotting against you, there is no stopping the DOW.
10-turn peace treaties only delay the inevitable by 10 turns. (Giving plenty of time to create a defense!)

Improving relations can prevent future wars, but it won't do crap if the AI is already plotting against you.


I've had some success spiking my Power Rating and the fist goes away after 20 or 30 turns without an attack, but it's rare.

My automatic response is to bribe another AI to DOW who I think is plotting against me.
That way once the enemy stack invades my lands, the attacker is too busy with the other AI to send any follow-up forces.

 

[Seraiel]

Well, from my understanding as far as it has proven before. If AI started to plot, it won't change that until actual war is going on (or something else happen.. somebody vassal target civ or something else?). Even if you manage to get to friendly you still will be target IF you are target (main question most times). 100% sure only if fist turns on when deny demand or there are noone else to attack for AI
Same time it can be totally different civ too not just human. Reason why its really important to know who is who worst enemy in this case. One more "legal trick" is to check espionage points spending from AI side - most times "target civ" will get more espionage points than others (you can see it under espionage screen on that table).
Also there are situations when you don't know 3rd civilization yet so you have no idea who Ai is at war (or ploting against..)... well, not exactly if you know atleast 2 civilizations knowing each other. If you click in F4 relations screen on 3rd leader head, mousing over 2nd leader will show to who (s)he is worst enemy and if its on war with somebody (even if you don't know that civ yet).
All you can do if AI actually going for you... pray ofcourse and a lot... and sacrifise some guys to your gods... best with some 50'000 slaves like Monty

Good tip with the espionage, thx .

The same has happened to me before, but the code divers say it isn't possible for an AI to plot against you if you have a peace treaty, so he must have switched targets and then reverted to you after the peace treaty expired.

I'm quite certain that that info is untrue, AIs from what I know simply continue plotting even if begging for peace. An AI won't start plotting against the player if that players has an active peace-treaty, but if it plotted before it'll also plot afterwards unless the conditions change, i. e. gifting and resources towards the AI can be a reason for the AI to stop plotting because a lack of and is a reason to plot, lacking is a reason to plot or also continue plotting and something that also leads them to continue plotting is if the AI can meet the certain checks that are done before war so if it i. e. can produce the desired amount of attack-units etc.

 

[elitetroops]

Once an AI starts plotting against you, there is no stopping the DOW.
10-turn peace treaties only delay the inevitable by 10 turns. (Giving plenty of time to create a defense!)

AIs from what I know simply continue plotting even if begging for peace.

Huh? I'm pretty sure I've seen the fist disappear immediately when begging for gold several times. So this is not supposed to happen?

 

[Shiffmeister]

Thanks for the answers everyone.

Huh? I'm pretty sure I've seen the fist disappear immediately when begging for gold several times. So this is not supposed to happen?

This is also the behaviour i usually see, when it was me they were plotting on. I usually see the red fist disappear, except on rare occasions like this one.

 

[Tatran]

gifting and resources towards the AI can be a reason for the AI to stop plotting because a lack of and is a reason to plot

This happened in a recent game where Isabella went into the fist mode for 1 or 2 turns and after giving into her demand (wheat) the plotting was gone.

 

[Seraiel]

Huh? I'm pretty sure I've seen the fist disappear immediately when begging for gold several times. So this is not supposed to happen?

No, this is not supposed to happen but it can happen. I assume that certain checks might be repeated at that time i. e. , like i. e. Traderoutes get assigned newly when conducting peace so a city that gets a road on that turn and has no TR due to that on that turn gets a TR when conducting peace with an AI because the TRs are evaluated newly than. What happens exactly according to the code I ofc. don't know but what's sure is that the AI must not necessarily stop plotting because of the peace-treaty, only that it won't plot against targets newly that have an active one.
What I also could imagine that diplo gets checked when begging for peace so an AI that plotted at cautious but cannot plot at pleased i. e. cannot continue the war when the player reaches pleased after the starting of the plotting and then begs so I think that there may be a check like the AI needs to re-plot the war with the prior-target being chosen first and then all other targets are considered aswell or so.

 

[Shiffmeister]

What I also could imagine that diplo gets checked when begging for peace so an AI that plotted at cautious but cannot plot at pleased i. e. cannot continue the war when the player reaches pleased after the starting of the plotting and then begs so I think that there may be a check like the AI needs to re-plot the war with the prior-target being chosen first and then all other targets are considered aswell or so.

Ok that sounds plausible. So the disappearing of the fist is actually more rare than not.. I'll keep count the next times