what should we do to afganistan?

[allan]

Not only your country, but even the US itself. The US has a large Muslim population who are mostly loyal to our government (most vote republican even)--but if we go to extremes, that could change.... And I don't want to see that.

Some people here in the US are getting antsy about when we're going to retaliate, but I'm pretty impressed with this administration's discipline in making sure this is done RIGHT. I had some initial fears that Tuesday, thinking I was witnessing the first attack of World War III--it seems (I sure hope anyway) that that may not come to pass, that cool heads are planning a deliberate and precise response, careful not to fan the flames with our anger.

BTW where are you from in Malaysia? The ship I used to serve on (the USS Independence) stopped at Port Kelang in 1997 (the first visit to your country by a US carrier), and I spent three days in nearby Kuala Lumpur. Had a lot of fun there....

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by allan
Not only your country, but even the US itself. The US has a large Muslim population who are mostly loyal to our government (most vote republican even)--but if we go to extremes, that could change.... And I don't want to see that.

But you see in the States, the Muslims are in a minority but in Msia, they are of the majority. The Msian govt is fully supportive behind America in the war against terrorism but the fundamentalists are trying to score points with the Muslim majority electorate by calling for jihad.
It's an emotional issue that can potentially flare up into an explosive issue if not handled properly. And it's something a lot of Muslim countries or countries with large Muslim minorities are grapppling with now. Fortunately Msian Muslims are a moderate lot on average so the Islamic party probably won't be too successful.

 

[Leowind]

Didn't have time to read all the replies, so apologies is this has already been said. I voted for none of the choices. Bin Laden needs taken care of, but the Afghan people need our help, not our bombs. That would do far more good in the long run, both for the Afghans and for US relations in that part of the world, than any military campaign.

 

[Cropduster]

The only good Afghan is a dead one.

 

[Mikoyan]

Hey, it is fascist remarks like that which will eventually be your death, boyo :skull:

 

[Mikoyan]

That's like saying "the only good yank is a dead yank"
Man, you must really have 'issues'!

 

[dreadhead7]

Cropduster, you need to chill on those racist remarks! Where have you been that you don't know that Afghanis, personally, are not responsible for the atrocities? This is the work of terrorists, most likely, Al-Qaeda, and bin Laden, not the people of Afghanistan. We all are angry about this, but racist backlashing is exactly what we DON'T need, now, or ever.

 

[starlifter]

Starlifter - I'm not so sure all countries really apriciate the food you're giving them. In Afghanistan, even in taliban controled areas, people are living on aid food, and almost all of it comes from your country... It doesn't seem that the taliban really helps you because of that. A lot of extrimist muslim leaders tell their people that it's the US's fault that they have no food, so the US has to give them food.

Yes, it is true that many counties insult and acost America, even as we provide aid. However, your point about the aid to Afganistan is a very good one. We have not been flying US Military airlifted aid to Afganistan (I'm an Air Force pilot) recently, but... the average American people have been organizing and privately funding aid to many, many places in the world for decades, like Afganistan. A relief organization right here in the Pacific Northwest has been supplying food and clean water directly to the Afghan people even as we speak.

The Taliban is anti-US. It is a common thing in the Arab world for militants to whip up ferver against America or Jews. This is in large part because the Arab world has much division and hate within itself. To distract attention, leaders often try to rally hate against "external" sources. And this is in turn largely responsible for the perpetuation of hate against Israel by Syria, the Palestinians, Iraq, etc.... not to mention the "stateless" Arab hate groups (terrorists) like the PLO, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.

As a matter of fact, if Isreal, all Jews, the entire "West", etc. suddenly disappeared, the Arab world would fracture into open war, just like it has and continues to do even today when the external "enemies" have not just disappeared!

However, it is my experience that individual groups of people actually do appreciate and remember aid, even if the larger populations and/or their government does not. I think aid should continue, but not through the Trojan Horse of the United Nations in general.

BTW, other countries sometimes provide private aid. I know Sweden is doing about $20,000,000 USD worth of aid from one of it's largest Christian churches to Russia and China, too.

On a different topic, SKM has good points in his post. Americans do not typically understand, or even try to understand, the political realities in other nations, especially semi-opressed ones (where the gov't does not treat people and freedom equally, even when opposing opinions/religions are offered).

 

[Ashoka]

But you see in the States, the Muslims are in a minority but in Msia, they are of the majority. The Msian govt is fully supportive behind America in the war against terrorism but the fundamentalists are trying to score points with the Muslim majority electorate by calling for jihad.

SKM -

This is true - but most of the Muslims there are *not* fundamentalists.

While most Americans are taking great care to stress that this is not a war against Islam... moderate Muslim gov'ts carry a huge responsibility, and DO need to take some of the blame. In countries with very little of the civil rights protection ofthe West, where gov't have been very agressive about curtailing movements that threaten stability (socialists, for example) Islamic fundamentalists have been allowed to grow and establish the type of structure that now threatens World War III.

I have a friend here who is also from Malaysia. He pointed out that the gov't there has not done much becasue they are too afraid of the fundamentalists. I would bet they are even more afraid now. Hopefully Malaysia and other states will never get to the point of Indonesia or Pakistan. Maybe when fundamentalist Muslims start killing masses of moderate Muslims, the vast majority of the Islamic community will decide they need to do something, and demand action from their governments.

It has been pointed out that the Fundamentalists don't have infrastructure similar to the cities of the West - so a reprisal or even a concerted threat will not be possible.

It seems to me that the people who say that have forgotten about Mecca and Medina. Not a pretty thought, but if warring Muslim factions begin fighting over these sites (most likely), or if the West has to move in and surround both in order to force an end to the madness (possible, but not too likely), maybe the moderate Islamic governments will need to rethink their inaction.


Ashoka

 

[G-Man]

It's true. Even moderate Islamic countries such as Jordan and Egypt are under founmentalist threat. Palestinian orgenizations tried to kill king Hussein of Jordan. Saddat what murdered by the Islamic Jihad - the same orgenization that provided most of the hijackers in the attack on the WTC - after he signed a peace agreement with Israel. The problem is that these foundmentalist seem to be in any country they think isn't Islamic enough - They fight against the goverments in Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia and the USA. And they are who we should fight - not all muslims.
Starlifter - ofcource the aid shouldn't stop. Without it millions will die. But the US should make them feel it's a mutual commitment - You help them, and they, in return, should help the US by disagreeing with the terrorists.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Ashoka -

The Msian govt is not exactly sitting on the fence. To date, it has thrown 10 people or so in jail under the Internal Security Act (imprisonment w/o trial - enacted after the race riots in 1969 to clamp down on racial politics) for subversive activites. These ppl are linked to Osama it's believed or at least they had been to Afghanistan and received military training there. They have been involved in killing an ethnic Indian elected official, robbing banks to fund their aim to set up an Islamic State in Msia and various other activities. Incl in their ranks is even the son of the Islamic opposition leader. They are also believed to be behind some of the attks on Christian churches in Indonesia and a bomb plot in a mall in Jakarta.

Secondly, the fundamentalist party isn't being oppressed or at least not as much as you believe. Msia is a federation of 13 states and they control 2 after winning the state elections. Would not have been possible have the govt been an oppressive administration. Individual citizens still have full rights and the vote so long as you don't incite communal violence and racial politics.

Thirdly we have a strong leader in our present Prime Minister so you can be sure he'll clamp down extremely hard on the extremists. And I think most Msians will be fully supportive behind him. The 2 states the Islamists controlled are not really important anyway, and the only reason they can win is cos 1)the states are rural, backward, underdeveloped places and 2)there are not many Chinese and Indians living there because of 1).

 

[Ashoka]

SKM -

I'm glad the Malysian gov't is taking these actions - I know the president (or was it prime minister??) visited Washington a few days after the attack.

But, from what little I know, many of the moderate Islamic states have been very active to deal with movements that threaten the country's stability - - unless it is an Islamic movement. True, Islamic fundamentalists will be much harder to deal with than other political groups, because the religious conection will make many devout -yet moderate -Muslims unhappy if the groups seem to be 'opressed'. We even have a similar problem in the US with groups that call themselves 'Christian', but are actually neo-facists and racist.

The difference is, in the US these groups have very little power, and engage in ZERO international activity. In moderate Muslim countries, the history seems to be that a goup is not challenged as long as terror activities take place abroad, and not in the home country.

But now, everyone is afraid, and we all have a big problem to deal with. I see little hope this can end without more bloodshed.


In Peace -

Ashoka