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what to do when you have no metal?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Blue88, May 15, 2008.

  1. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

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    Cannons require iron iirc
     
  2. Daedal

    Daedal Prince

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    7-8 cities on a tiny map is definitely enough. You could have just massed longbows and catapults to get your power rating up. That would have kept the AI from attacking or at least given you a fighting chance against whatever it sent your way. With that many cities you should have been able to out-tech the AI and then it's up to you what victory to go for.

    I'm not too keen on early 'navies' so much as a couple galleys or triremes. Two early ships per isolated coastline (ie one for your east coast and one for your west coast on a continent that stretches to both poles..) are enough to keep barbarian galleys from pillaging your seafood. You want two in case one dies. Workboats are also really useful for discovering other civs early on since they're available so early and move relatively quickly.
     
  3. Blue88

    Blue88 Chieftain

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    I think Daedal sums up the majority of the responses pretty well. It seems that if I had built about twice as many units (within my power, but I used too much time to tech) I could have crushed Gilgamesh's offensive with few losses and counter-attacked to seize iron.

    I don't think I had horses either (just pigs, cows and LOTS of clams) but I probably would have been OK with a ton of catapults and longbowmen until I got rifles. I'll try that next time I have the misfortune to miss both axemen and praetorians :(
     
  4. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    :rockon: Make your own metal. :rockon:
     
  5. Clam Spammer

    Clam Spammer Prince

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    Playing for a resource-dependent UU is very risky. I'd suggest that it is worthwhile to go for Iron Working early, but not at the expense of early economic/worker techs. How good was your early scouting? If you found some unclaimed iron on the coast (though unlikely on a tiny map) or even up a river from the coast, it would be a good idea to send a settler with an archer on a galley to settle on top of it, even if it is a long way away. Praets are definitely worth a bit of extra maintenance cost. If there is none to be had then you'd better change your plans ASAP. I would agree with Daedal - cats and longbows until you get gunpowder.

    Other than that, I'd say you did pretty well to get as far as you did after getting boxed in by a CRE/PRO leader with no metal. That's harsh.
     
  6. bestbrian

    bestbrian Just this guy, ya know?

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    LBs with specialized promos (shock/cover) can be quite effective on offense.
     
  7. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    Get on good enough terms with Gilgy to buy Iron from him then kill him with with catapults and praetorians.
     
  8. slobberinbear

    slobberinbear Ursine Skald

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    I agree, but I would add that in sufficient numbers and a tech lead, you can take out AIs with just longbows -- catapults aren't strictly necessary if you move quickly. I did this recently with Liz against Willem. I was building 5 xp longbows (usually with Combat I and Cover, or Drill II). I would lose a couple here and there, but was able to mow down everything Willem had (archers and mixed infantry), even in hilltop cities.

    As you say, doing the longbow strategy as Sitting Bull is even better as you can get to 10xp with barracks + totem pole + vassalage + theocracy.

    Having some suicide cats would probably make the longbow stack go faster, but then again you have to research masonry + math + construction to make that happen.
     
  9. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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  10. Clam Spammer

    Clam Spammer Prince

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    Good point, but AFAIK the AI won't trade such an important resource unless they have some spare. And since the OP is playing on a tiny map, the chances of anyone having 2 iron are slim.

    That's a nice thought, but unless you have a much better starting location than your rival, or are a Financial leader (which he isn't unless it's unrestricted, while you are in your example) then you are unlikely to have such a tech lead this early. Even if you do, you certainly won't have it for long enough to do any real damage, and for the cats you're teching Construction too. Plus the OP was up against the best defensive trait combo (CRE/PRO) which means you will need far superior numbers, even with longbows vs archers.


    Jet - very funny, but not helpful.
     
  11. kazapp

    kazapp Emperor

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    Obviously he could have had an army ten times bigger than yours, but otherwise you aren't at any particular disadvantage here. Longbows aren't worse than either of those units.

    I would have disbanded any Warriors (except one per city) pronto (they cost maintenance, and unless heavily promoted not worthwhile to keep around for when you do get your hands on a metal), building Longbows instead that I'd give various promotions to better combat any attacking units.

    As has been said previously, with Construction you have everything you need. Yes, Longbows & Catapults are fine conquerers.

    Axes and Swords are just icing on the cake - having metals is nice, but not essential like Oil.
     
  12. kazapp

    kazapp Emperor

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    Yes, once you've thrown, say, 10 Catapults at a city and every single defender is in the red, then you can simply take that city with whatever escorts you have at hand.

    One mistake often made by beginners is not bringing along a big enough army. This means the war drags on longer than it has to: too few catapults mean longer bombardment times, and possibly that some defenders escape relatively unharmed, thus you risk losing attacking units to them, and too few city invaders (macemen, longbows, spears, what have you) often means you can't take a city in a single turn because there's more defenders than attackers, which is bad because remaining defenders will gain XP and heal up, and you give the AI room to send reinforcements.

    So if you set out to conquer three cities, two smaller ones with three defenders each and one capital with six defenders; your invading army should consist of around ten-twelve escorts (that double as city attackers) and probably around ten Cats/Trebs.

    Why twelve attackers and not six? Because the AI will have time to whip more defenders (and move in reinforcements)!

    Once you have "enough" Cats or Trebs you will realize that your escorts are seldom attacked. That means, once the war has started, you should ideally find that you only need to build Cats/Trebs to replace those that die (and die they will!).

    Civ is perhaps surprising in that regard - almost all your casualties in a (good) war are siege units!
     
  13. kazapp

    kazapp Emperor

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    Even better, try that with a Civ with an unrelated UU (such as India, or Germany).

    Otherwise you might miss the point: Catapults plus anything can conquer any civ!

    (...that's approximately as advanced as you! For example, due to the new use of Flanking, once he gets Knights, your siege units start taking unacceptable damage unless you can properly shield them, such as with War Elephants)
     
  14. Bostock

    Bostock King

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    :rotfl:

    I never thought I would see the day when something would make me stoop to using that smiley, but... I really had no choice. :lol:

    Bostock
     

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