What to do with Great Scientists

[GermanUruk-Hai]

Academy
settle
Bulb
I generally make my capitol my highest commerce city, run beaucracy, build academy and oxford, then settle the rest in that city. Is this the best use of them? I always play on marathon, if that alters anything. Thanks

 

[Rameau's Nephew]

That's a solid overall strategy.

I prefer to bulb a few while in the Liberalism race, if possible-- leaves me free to research some of those important medieval military techs without falling behind. Also, later in the game, the ROI on settling is lower, so using them for Golden Ages (assuming that you have a source of non-scientist GPs) is more effective.

 

[DaveMcW]

Yes, that works fine on Emperor and below.

 

[mariogreymist]

I bulb frequently when not in the tech lead. They frequently allow me to pick up monopoly techs which I can trade around and get the tech lead. I also tend to bulb for philo/education on a liberalism run. Settling them in an oxford city which already has an academy is also a very good use.

Every situation is different though. I've been in spots where I needed to make two civics switches (in and out of nationalism/slavery) in short order, and in such a spot with a large kingdom, burning one for a GA (assuming there isn't an alternative GP to burn) isn't the worst play (I also play marathon). Just figure out how much you lose in each turn of anarchy...often ten full turns for two civics switches like that. Usually a GS is worth about 15-20 turns worth of research, but by getting a GA, you also get to produce (and extra ones no less) for those turns. The math doesn't lie, and double civics switches in the mid-late game on marathon are killers.

 

[dirtyparrot]

In most cases it depends. It's generally between academy and bulbing (usually I try for Philo, although it would depend on my tech standing).

 

[GermanUruk-Hai]

DaveMcW "Yes, that works fine on Emperor and below"
could you please explain, I play on Diety and I consistently use this strategy. I generally only bulb techs if I am desperate for tech trading techs. I find settling from the beginning especially as phi can yeild a huge amount of research later in the game which helps me keep up with the AI.

 

[GermanUruk-Hai]

I bulb frequently when not in the tech lead. They frequently allow me to pick up monopoly techs which I can trade around and get the tech lead. I also tend to bulb for philo/education on a liberalism run. Settling them in an oxford city which already has an academy is also a very good use.

Every situation is different though. I've been in spots where I needed to make two civics switches (in and out of nationalism/slavery) in short order, and in such a spot with a large kingdom, burning one for a GA (assuming there isn't an alternative GP to burn) isn't the worst play (I also play marathon). Just figure out how much you lose in each turn of anarchy...often ten full turns for two civics switches like that. Usually a GS is worth about 15-20 turns worth of research, but by getting a GA, you also get to produce (and extra ones no less) for those turns. The math doesn't lie, and double civics switches in the mid-late game on marathon are killers.

excellent point, I try to use great artists, spys, and prophets(when I can't build shrine) for golden ages. For instance, if i get music first ill hang on to that great artist until a good moment for a golden age

 

[GermanUruk-Hai]

Yes, that works fine on Emperor and below.

could you please explain, I play on Diety and I consistently use this strategy. I generally only bulb techs if I am desperate for tech trading techs. I find settling from the beginning especially as phi can yeild a huge amount of research later in the game which helps me keep up with the AI.

 

[CarlH]

personally, i have recently decided that settling is better than academy for the first. You get a much more immediate gain and, at the higher levels, thats what its all about.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

personally, i have recently decided that settling is better than academy for the first. You get a much more immediate gain and, at the higher levels, thats what its all about.

This depends very heavily on your expansion rate and how high your base research rate is expected to be in the near future in the capitol. If you can sustain >12 base beakers in the capitol for a meaningful period of time, the academy starts looking better. For empires with a good commerce start or semi-cramped quarters where a rush isn't chosen, academy will easily beat out settling even on the first GS.

It's the exact opposite if you're going all-out rush, as the slider is often low during and a considerable time after the rush, and the settled GS will gain a lot of ground on the academy making the latter take a long time to break even.

Bulbing philosophy is an alternative to either, especially if you meet enough AIs to run trades for alpha + math off of just aesthetics or monarchy (or researching alpha and trading for math), as then you are CoL away. Bulbing philo is also a consideration on a continent that has no religion and likely will not found one, as this can open up 20+ gpt shrines w/o missionary investment and/or get AIs to friendly for monopoly and perma-trades.

Iranon also says he rarely if ever bulbs and wins at deity. I personally like bulbing a lot but will do one and sometimes even two academies with GS.

 

[Udey1]

could you please explain, I play on Diety and I consistently use this strategy. I generally only bulb techs if I am desperate for tech trading techs. I find settling from the beginning especially as phi can yeild a huge amount of research later in the game which helps me keep up with the AI.

Don't bother. Dave purposely gives vague advice. Someone will follow it up with their interpretation of what he might have meant. To some he is the oracle of CFC.

 

[mariogreymist]

excellent point, I try to use great artists, spys, and prophets(when I can't build shrine) for golden ages. For instance, if i get music first ill hang on to that great artist until a good moment for a golden age

I agree with that wholeheartedly. It is also true that I produce far more Scientists than I do artists, merchants, spies and Engineers. This means that any idea that scientists aren't good for GAs severely limits opportunities to maximize on the bonuses and free civic swaps.

I know I've played games where I missed significant military opportunities because I was unwilling to go through anarchy twice to do a round of drafting. In many of those games, I had multiple academies and settled GS's. I've noticed as I have moved up to emperor, that when one lets a military opportunity pass, it rarely presents itself again later due to improved AI research ability...you need to strike while the iron is hot, and the opportunities* you can cost yourself if you aren't willing to consider a GA with a GS can be the difference between victory and defeat.

*The land taken with a successful invasion will provide superior to nearly any academy

 

[Tristan_C]

...I always play on marathon, if that alters anything.

Bulbing for a military asset holds a special attraction on marathon. It's like freezing time in the precious moments where you have the maces while everyone else has the swords, or where you have siege before AIs heap up on longbows. In a quicker game you want momentum, momentum, momentum, so the gifts that keep on giving are more important. Consider that difference, but of course, don't let any one thing be your sole consideration. Certainly not the game speed.

 

[DaveMcW]

could you please explain, I play on Diety and I consistently use this strategy. I generally only bulb techs if I am desperate for tech trading techs. I find settling from the beginning especially as phi can yeild a huge amount of research later in the game which helps me keep up with the AI.

When do you typically discover Education?

 

[Artichoker]

Academy
settle
Bulb
I generally make my capitol my highest commerce city, run beaucracy, build academy and oxford, then settle the rest in that city. Is this the best use of them? I always play on marathon, if that alters anything. Thanks

Does it work best for you?

In reality, there are many proven ways of using your Great Scientists. Some Deity games posted here used Philosophy bulb first, delaying Academies until very long after, and still were able to gain a significant tech and military advantage by the time Industrial comes along. Other playstyles avoid bulbing entirely and still work successfully.

But in any case, it doesn't hurt to try out different ways of playing yourself and then decide whether one or the other is better.

 

[NihilZero]

The efficacy of bulbing largely depends on the trade possibilities. You can get several thousands worth of beakers from one bulb if diplomatic and other factors allow for enough trades. A settled GS under representation with academy, library, university and oxford is worth 27 beakers per turn.

In situations where you are behind in tech one bulb can completely rescue you and bring you near to parity, making it a necessity rather than an alternative. If you're isolated, or diplomatically isolated, then bulbing may not be all that great.

Then of course there are bulbs used to get to Lib, which may or may not be huge of themselves, but which lead to something potentially very big.

 

[kivanc]

well, depends on your economy style but generally i suggest just looking at the beakers.
* when you build and academy, what bonus it will bring
* which tech it will give and/or how many beakers towards that tech

just divide the beakers and find out in how many turns your academy will compensate not bulbing the GS. but also take into account that, with the free tech bulbed you can trade new free techs. so the effect might create a snowball.

well, city specialization also comes into account here. the best seems like the following and i do this for nearly all leaders.

* have a few cottage riverside cities, build academies there
* have some coastal cities and try to increase trade commerce there
* have some GP farms
* have many production cities, workshop spam every tile except food resources, build forge and factory, then build research/wealth in those cities
* adopt hereditary rule&mercantilism in early game
* adopt representation, caste system and state property in mid & late game

this approach will maximize your benefit from GS. by the way, when your emancipation anger gets too high, you might have to change to it. you can also put a 20& to culture rate instead of changing to emancipation. But emancipation will limit your scientists and not all specialists can be assigned as scientists. Just decide according to this.

 

[GermanUruk-Hai]

When do you typically discover Education?

I don't have an exact date, but considering i generally favor a direct path route on diety, so i can trade those beaker heavy techs for other techs i need, always before 1 AD, what time is it good for education

 

[GermanUruk-Hai]

When do you typically discover Education?

I don't have an exact date, but considering i generally favor a direct path route on diety, so i can trade those beaker heavy techs for other techs i need, always before 1 AD, usually just before 1000 BC what time is it good for education?

 

[DaveMcW]

Education before 1000BC, on deity, without bulbing? Are you playing one city challenge?