What to do with our GL?

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by Eklektikos
I also fail to understand the rationale for building Newton's Univeristy, since we (rightly) spend absolutely nothing on science

Under our current fiscal structure, you would be correct. However, there are some other issues in play here that could make Newton's a viable addition to our society.

First, Greece has kindly offered to fund our proposed 100% science budget for the next twenty turns in return for a Mutual Protection Pact. Their generosity would allow us to research technologies that could, in turn be sold to our rivals to further fund our efforts in other areas.

Second, Greece is arguably the tech leader in the world already. They are at least two techs ahead of us at present. Sadly, they refuse to share their technology with us at any price. If we do not do something to counter this situation, we may soon find ourselves hopelessly behind in technology.

Rushing Newton's University could provide us with another weapon in the tech race to compete with our rivals, and Greece's generosity may provide us with the time needed to make the transition. Twenty turns of 206gpt payments would allow us to discover at least 2 techs while maintaining an operational surplus.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

And rushing Universal Suffrage would ensure that we could enter a Democracy, so we never have a scientific emergency like this again.

We have scientific traits as well, everyone. Let's join the tech race on our terms instead of begging for everyones scraps.

 

[Shaitan]

Using the Greek money to upgrade our aging pikemen would restore us to a position of military prominence. Our loss of stature in this area is the key reason we can no longer make equitable tech trades. Fix the military and that will fix the science.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Ok, listen up everybody, because a good deal just got better.....

I just paid a visit to the Greeks and all I can say is that we should renegotiate for peace. This would enable us to either:

A. Add 912g lump sum to the standing deal of MPP and Gems for 206gpt.

OR

B. Allow us to trade MPP and Gems for 97gpt(no lump sum) and........Steam Power!


What we need to determine now is whether Steam Power is worth the approximately 3100 we would give up.

-With the extra 3100, we could have more gold to quickly upgrade our units and raise the science rate to 100%. The discovery of Medicine in 10 turns could allow us a chance for both Steam Power and Industrialization.

-With Steam Power, we would have the prerequisite tech for Industrialization and the possible gpt to secure it.

I am leaning toward the extra gold myself, but what do you think, Fanatika?

 

[Cheetah]

Shaitan: Are you sure that we will get better deals for science (or deals at all), if our military is upgraded?

For as I now see it we have a golden oppurtunity to get some techs and wonders.

If we build Newtons University, Greece will switch to Universal Suffrage. I believe it would be better that we get Universal Suffrage and let Greece complete Newtons University. And then we should get to ToE.

We will allways be able to upgrade our army, but the wonders can not be built later.

 

[Shaitan]

@Cheetah - Yes, the relative position of strength does figure into AI bargaining.

@DZ - What happens to the deal when we add ROP and World Map to the bargain?

 

[Cheetah]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
A. Add 912g lump sum to the standing deal of MPP and Gems for 206gpt.

OR

B. Allow us to trade MPP and Gems for 97gpt(no lump sum) and........Steam Power!

I dont think I can make up my mind

A:
With the extra gold we could afford some of the military upgrades that some people think is important, and still researching and getting Industrialisation.

B:
If we get Steam Power now, and 97gpt we should be able to get Industrialisation in a much shorter time: Research medicine and with it and some gold buying Industrialisation should be possible I think. So 9 turns to get Industrialisation and then use the Great Leader to get Universal Suffrage and then go for ToE.

As I want Universal Suffrage I'm leaning towards B for now.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I was thinking that too, Cheetah, although if we get Medicine in 10 turns we could use it to get both techs. It would also give us 10 turns to produce enough workers to lay down a Trans-Fanatikan Railway quickly.

Although I wouldn't mind getting some Ironclads in the water soon......

 

[Donovan Zoi]

@Shaitan - We just started an RoP with Greece.

And we have maxed out the Greeks financially. They will go no higher than 206gpt and they only have 913gpt. Kind of odd that they won't part with that 1 piece of gold.

So I would say that, without checking, the most we could add is that 1 gold. I say we let 'em keep it.

 

[Chieftess]

Once we do get steam, we should see how much coal we have, and IF we can trade it to any of our allies. Especially to defend against the Persians. Also, we should gift England with some techs (gee, notice how this has gotten off of the topic? ) so they they aren't backwards. All of their cities are size 3-6 (only 2 are size 6).

 

[donsig]

I'm leaning towards saving Horsa for universal suffrage. Letting the Greeks build Newton's and rushing US with Horsa may well give us a good chance to use our pre-build in Kyoto for ToE. I've reached this conclusion because we can now get steam power from the Greeks along with a hefty gold boost. I'm thinking we'd have to switch to researching industrialization. We could continue on the path to medicine and trade it for industrialization. Anyone have any ideas what the chances are the Greeks would be willing to make such a trade? Anyone have any idea if Alex's henchmen are working on medicine themselves?

The idea of selling medicine is good but seems to me most civs are broke. And Greece is the only one building US so they are probably the only one with industrialization.

 

[FortyJ]

If we are indeed ending our war with Babylon, then perhaps we should consider more carefully the notion of saving Horsa for Universal Suffrage.

Without the Babylonian war, there is not much of a chance of developing a new leader in the next 10 turns or so, so there's not much harm in holding Horsa.

Rushing US would likely end the wonder cascade for all civs, allowing us ample time to either prebuild for and possibly beat everyone to ToE or at least get another GL from Persia (assuming we actually wish to help protect the Greeks) or Russia to rush ToE.

Although, I typically have no qualms with using leaders to create armies, even when there is a quasi-tempting great wonder ready to be rushed in a nearby town, I do not think producing an army of cavalry at this time would be prudent. The window of opportunity for Cavalry is already closing. Once infantry appear, this army would be essentially obsolete. Our next army should be Panzers or Infantry, but not Cavalry, in my opinion.

 

[Shaitan]

We should trade for a fresh Greek map to see if they have any railroads. If not, chances are they do not have coal. IF we have a coal source to trade them, we should be able to get industrialization from them for that and some cheap. With the territory we control, chances are we have at least two sources of coal.