What to research next?

[DaveMcW]

We will have Literature soon. What tech do we want next?

Horseback Riding (6)
Drama (7)
Paper (13)
Feudalism (15)
Machinery (15)
Mathematics -> Calendar (15)
Mathematics -> Construction (15)
Mathematics -> Currency (16)
Mathematics -> Music (21)
Philosophy (17)

Spoiler Tech Tree :

 

[gbno1fan]

I vote Paper and then Printing Press.

The bonus to the towns/villages will be nice.

Plus, we now have 2(1 friendly and 1 skeptical) trade partners, so we don't need to necessarily research the lower techs if we can work out a deal.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

my vote would be for Mathematics->Currency. We will found a lot more cities soon (right...?), and the extra trade route from Currency without having to build something will help nicely. Paper->PP would need a lot longer than that. And in case we want to chop some wood for the Great Library, Mathematics won't hurt either.

-Kylearan

 

[General_W]

I'm a big fan of getting Math next - I think it's a very key tech, so the sooner we get it the better.

Going for currency after that makes good sense, but I have less strong opinions about that.
Picking up that free Great Artist at Music is always a fun ace to have up your sleve!

 

[azzaman333]

Math opens up a lot of options, so definately that.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I'm a big fan of getting Math next - I think it's a very key tech, so the sooner we get it the better.

I'm curious - why do you think Math is a key tech? I voted for it simply because it's a prerequisite for Currency, but apart from that I don't think it's really needed. The chop bonus alone isn't worth it IMHO, and we don't need Calendar or Construction right now.

No offense meant, I'm just curious about your reasoning.

Picking up that free Great Artist at Music is always a fun ace to have up your sleve!

Personally, I don't think the great artist from Music alone would be worth it to research Music that soon. If we want to build the wonder, then okay, but apart from that I often avoid the tech for a long time in my private games.

Maybe the artist could be used to lightbulb a tech to make us even more advanced compared to the other teams, but we don't really need that right now, and artists tend to offer useless techs most of the time anyway. But I haven't taken a look at Dave's excellent article about the tech preferences for our situation here, so I'm only guessing.

-Kylearan

 

[Memphus]

Alright well let's look at all the techs:

Horseback Riding: We don't have horses hooked up and won't for a while, so this is a tech we should trade for.
Not to mention Horse Archers arn't all that great, and we have no Iron for Knights.


Drama: Until I saw Dave's Pop rush magic I would have said no on this tech, but now the Globe theater
is a little more of a priority.

Paper: Important Tech we can trade for Maps Not to mention no one lese is even close to
being able to reasearch it, which is a bit of a negative point as we have no option to use it for a trade.

Feudalism: Allows for Vassalage (Don't think we're gonna change out of Beaureacracy) and Serfdom (Don't think
we're gonna change out of Slavery) and Longbows. We don't need Longbows yet as We're gonna havea slew of Axemen.

Machinery: Normally I would say important for our UU (Cho-ku-nu) However we have no Iron, and once this is done
no more axemen in Eternal Eye. So I would say hold off on Machinery until we Discover Construction.

Mathmatics: Opens alot of Techs, and yes the chop bonus for the GL. A Great Trade Bait Tech.
That being Said maybe Pfiffle is already aquiring it? Personally I would like to see us trade for this
in the near future instead of researching it. That being said, unless we can swing a concret Deal where we know
Pfiffle is researching it and going to trade it, then we have to get it ourselves.

==> If we research Math next, then I will comment on the other Techs that can be aquired once getting Math.

Philosophy Well we don't need a religion...but Pacifism would be nice to enable, except we are going to be pumping
out 1 axeman every 3 turns = -1/gpt under pacisfism. So the question becomes, which relgious tech do we want to enable?
Personally if it was single player I would go with Org Religion, but due to multiplayer, Theocracy is a must if
we want to open our borders (so no foreign religion to spread) That being said this tech just isn't worth it.

So based on the 7 options that are presented before us I weigh them accordingly:

1. Math
2. Drama
3. Paper
4. Feudalism
5. Machinery
6. Philosophy
7. Horseback riding

So if we can't Trade for Math then we need to get Math...only because of everything else it opens up.
***If we can't trade for math then we need to arrange something to trade Math for!***
Although I am almost certain we will see math pop up under Pfiffle's techs any turn now.

 

[General_W]

I'm surprised to hear you're not that big a fan of Math Kylearan! Maybe it's just indicative of my lower skill-level, but every time I chop a forest before I have Math, I always feel like I'm wasting shields. And I love to chop forests!
Course, I've never used the whip before, except in more desperate situations… so that's certainly held my game back – I'm amazed at how powerful these well-timed whips are!!

Anyway – because of the chopping and because I love currency, construction, and music – Math has always been a favored tech of mine.

Re: Great Artist… I generally don't find them worthwhile to spend my GP points on, but I've always found them tremendously useful for grabbing border territory in a hurry in a disputed area (like maybe that land down near Loco with some sweet resources?) – or for instantly making a key enemy town productive and useful after I've captured it.
Anyway – If I can get one for free without spending my precious GPpoints on it – I like to go for it.

But I see your point – we may have other priorities.

At this point, I'd still vote for Math --> Currency.

 

[peter grimes]

every time I chop a forest before I have Math, I always feel like I'm wasting shields

My feelings exactly! But i'm trying really hard to remember to call them Hammers

I'd say Math first, also for it's tradeability with our neighbors.

 

[Agarwaen]

The point in getting the great artist is get advantages from our tech leading and deny others from getting him, but still I'm in fover of getting math first, then chop those forests!

 

[lost_civantares]

In this type of map though how useful is he? Culture bombing isn't all that needed right now, and extra culture production in cities isn't needed, he's just worth half a golden age.

 

[azzaman333]

The only use I can see for a GA is using him to produce his 12 cpt in the city to block Piffle getting up to our core.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Anyway – because of the chopping and because I love currency, construction, and music – Math has always been a favored tech of mine.

Of course I can see why one would like to get Mathematics because it opens up so many research possibilities, but that doesn't make Math itself a good tech. I try to play more focused: I don't research a tech only because it opens up other techs, but like to decide beforehand which tech (which maybe comes after it) I want, and then go for the prerequisite tech, and only if I need the tech after it next.

The chopping bonus is nice, sure - but how many forests do you chop, compared to the number of beakers you have to invest into Mathematics (and maybe delay other techs with more powerful abilities)? Except in ultra-early-conquest-games I try not to chop too much, as I would regret that later. Health can be a limiting factor later on, and in case of cities which do not have many hills, forests are needed as a source of hammers as well.


But since I think we should go for Currency here, I'd still vote for Mathematics next - but only if we plan to get Currency next.

-Kylearan

 

[General_W]

I agree Kylearan!

In my defense, I don't favor Math just because it opens techs – it's just that the way I play, I always seem to find myself either in a hurry for Construction (usually a priority after IW in my militaristic games to get the Catapults) or for Currency and Music (in my more peaceful games).

Anyway – we're not really arguing about style here.

I don't really see anyone arguing against going for currency next – the only unknown factor here is what's going on with Loco – they're clearing trading with someone… so it's kind of a wild card as to what they might offer us trading wise?
We'll need to see what they say…hopefully before we have to make a firm commitment on what to research next.

But barring anything unforeseen – it seems like Math --> Currency is our best bet.

 

[Maniac]

There are many attractive techs. Can't say I have strong preference.

Philosophy Well we don't need a religion...

I'm wondering about this statement though. Surely one can never have too many religions? Each one means a possible +1 happy and gold per city.

 

[lost_civantares]

And it means that someone else could be out of a religion to have...

 

[General_W]

What do people think of making a quick grab for Sailing after Math if Loco again rejects our offer?

I'd argue that we have a more immediate need for Sailing than for any other tech that's currently available.

Consider: If we want to have a chance of spreading Confucianism to Piffle before they institute a theocracy – we'd better get a jump on some trading routes into their land. (Do we need open borders for our religion to spread? Or does open borders just make it go faster?)

Also Consider: We've got our first costal town, and more are soon to come. With a lighthouse and our financial bonus, costal tiles are very attractive tiles for us to work without any improvement required.

Finally Consider: If there is Iron nearby just off our coast (as I'm really hoping there is!) then we're going to need galleys to lay claim to those areas before Piffle can beat us there with their galleys!

All that requires sailing – the sooner the better imho. If Loco won't deal with us, then I say it's important enough to take a 2 turn detour to get it.

Lastly – I'm still a fan of getting currency next… but maybe we should more seriously consider getting Philosophy. With 2 civs lacking a religion, and Innovia on the track to get Christianity (and maybe even Islam?) There's a decent shot that us snapping up Taoism would deny at least 1 civ a religion. Biggest problem, of course, is that philosophy is twice as expensive as Currency (800 vs 400) – and doesn’t really do us a lot of good outside of an extra religion… which is nice, no doubt! The extra happy and culture and science from those temples and monasteries and Academy/Pagodas is pretty nice (and btw, both academy and pagoda are +50% construction with copper! And our source of incense will add +1 happy face!)

Anyway – I'm rambling now!

Bottom line – any support for getting Sailing after Math if Loco won't deal?

 

[DaveMcW]

I believe we can use Piffle's knowledge of sailing to open a trade route. But we will see when the coastal city is built.

 

[Memphus]

I believe we can use Piffle's knowledge of sailing to open a trade route. But we will see when the coastal city is built.

As of Interturn Port of Mists was trading at +1 with Capital.

However this isn't to say there isn't a delay as associated with Tech trading.

Either way by my calculations at the end of next turn when we discover Math Sailing with require only 1 more turn (due to overflows) thus if Loco Declines the trade:

Next turn I can offer Math for Both Monotheism and Sailing. If they decline again then we pick up sailing in 1 turn, and Call Loco morons

 

[Memphus]

But I guess the Question is what To research next if Loco Pulls thier head out of thier %^$.

As I mentioned Before I will now comment on our Available techs: (This again assuming we already have sailing)

We have the following Options
Calendar
Contuction
Currency
Music
Drama
Paper
Feudalism
Machinery
Philosophy
Horseback riding

Where the Last 6 I have commented on already.

So Of the new ones: (each attribute gets a value of 1-4)

Calendar:
1. will allow us to get new resources...but wait all we have is incence on a desert tile nowhere near one of the next projected cities is anytime soon.
Memphus's Value: 1
2. Centers the World Map and gives us a Scale of Land etc. Since this irrelevant as the test game I set up was sclaed to the same size map, we already know the pixel deminson of our map (furthermore We know the North and South Poles all we don't know is the East / West)
Value: 1

Contuction
Catapults: Are we going to war anytime soon? Also IF we ever find Iron Cho-Ku_nu's anyone? But no in reality, this tech goes up in value after machinery and the axeman 3 turn pop is out . (we can do the same with Pults according to Mr. McW.
Value: 1
Aqueduct: Are we going to build the hanging gardens?
Value 0, Although more important as Capital Grows for
Bridges: :wehoo: we have a grat river between Immortal Keep and everyone else = slows units down.
Value 2
Leads to Engineering (think 3 moves on a road not 2 and West Gate may need to be reinforced)
Value: 2

Music
Great Artist: Value 3 nice to have
Sistine Chapel: +2 specialist...hmmm well...
Value: 0 (at the moment)

Currency
+1 trade routes per city (at the moment = +4 trade routes = minimum + 4 )
Value: 4
Can Build MarketPlace (anyone see our treasury lately, looks like is going < 100 %
Value: 2

Results:
Currency: 6
Construction 5
Music: 3
Calendar: 2

How it fits in with other techs:
1. Currency
2. Construction (Keep in Mind Engineering)
3. Drama
4. Paper
5. Feudalism
6. Music
7. Calendar
8. Machinery (goes up if we want to go to war = bad idea IMO)
9. Philosophy
10. Horseback riding


uggh sorry for the long post