What will replace religion.

Religion as we knew it in Civ4 has been removed, according to some article (too many articles, don't know where anything comes from!). However, it is still "in" in the "Social Policies". Apparently, it's sort of like a tech tree, where you can "evolve" your civics. So for religion, I think they said it was something like:

Polytheism --> Monotheism --> Theocracy

Which really is, though not terrible in and of itself, kind of sad... It shows a really Western-centric view of religion, wherein monotheism is inherently more "advanced" than polytheism, and that the most "complex" religions automatically become theocracies.

Oh well. I hope that when they say diplomacy will "replace" religion, so to speak, that the diplomacy in Civ5 will be really intersting.
 
Religion as we knew it in Civ4 has been removed, according to some article (too many articles, don't know where anything comes from!). However, it is still "in" in the "Social Policies". Apparently, it's sort of like a tech tree, where you can "evolve" your civics. So for religion, I think they said it was something like:

Polytheism --> Monotheism --> Theocracy

Which really is, though not terrible in and of itself, kind of sad... It shows a really Western-centric view of religion, wherein monotheism is inherently more "advanced" than polytheism, and that the most "complex" religions automatically become theocracies.

Oh well. I hope that when they say diplomacy will "replace" religion, so to speak, that the diplomacy in Civ5 will be really intersting.

That may just be assuming bad faith (no pun intended) on behalf of the developers, really. It's just as possible that they simply are pointing out that monotheistic religions have basically all appeared after the development of polytheistic religions in the area (Abrahamic religions, for example, in Judea; Sikhism), and thus like how Communism usually comes after Democracy in your average Civ IV research path, while it is chronologically later, it's not necessarily more advanced. But Theocracy probably shouldn't be tethered to Monotheism: you should get to have as many Tibets as you do Irans, but that may just be the devs being shortsighted or trying to give Monotheism more value, especially if they're sapping religions from being tied to them.

I must admit that I'm disappointed in the removal of religions from the game. They did help a lot with public happiness, culture, research, and made diplo more interesting. There were, of course, a number of serious problems with the implementation: old religions being peskily resilient, later religions (Islam in particular) being less useful to pretty much worthless, shrines being cash cows, etc. However, the dev team's apparent fix for these problems (take a fire axe to the concept) seems excessively draconian. Surely there would have been some better way to try to fix these problems, and I think a lot of us would have preferred a little revamping to out-and-out annihilation. Civ 3 air units were ridiculous (you could easily level a city without touching the defenders inside, and "precision" air strikes were both too late in the game and worthless anyway), but instead of simply dumping the model, the designers fixed it and released it in Civ IV. I'm not sure why no such effort has been made here, but it really doesn't sit well with me.

I'll admit that I'm skeptical. The dev team said that new advanced diplomacy will cover for the void in the game made by annihilating religion and espionage, but really, how can the diplomacy become more advanced by eliminating some of the most powerful components of it? It's like an airline claiming that better in-flight service will make up for the elimination of the snack service and in-flight movie. What I can't understand is how the designers can be shying away from fixing or even including elements that were somewhat controversial when introduced in the last game (collateral damage is a non-issue now, I guess) while at the same time introducing rampant changes to the gameplay that will ultimately likely and already kind of are proving to be even more divisive and problematic. I guess I just hope that the game designers reconsider this by the time the game is done.
 
BL: Another area that seems to have changes a bit is diplomacy, perhaps it’s a little bit more complex than it used to be. Can you tell us about that?

DS: Diplomacy, uh…traditional diplomacy in Civilization, interacting with other leaders is going to feel very similar in some aspects but the addition of full screen leaders, set in there scenes, being able to see the entire body to look at their body language, really can tell how they feel is really going to bring players into diplomacy like never before. They speak their own language, you're going to be able to see a mood on their face, they also have agendas in the background. Our lead designer Jon Shafer is going to great lengths to make these players more interesting to play against…it’s not just going to be subtle math in the background they’re actually going to have a certain way that they like to play.

Doesn't sound like Diplomacy is anything too much different... I was hoping for an awesome set of diplomacy options, to really bring it to life. Diplomacy is HUGE in the world, and should be made as such!

If they keep with 'trade iron for gold', 'get more research for gold', (No tech trading???)... that is not fun anymore.

But, it's going to feel very similar, with the difference being a big graphic that talks in other languages with subtitles. Cool, but not exactly exciting for gameplay. I'd much prefer gameplay over a graphic.

Something like: A country is trying to build Nuclear, or their is an arms race, and a vast amount of diplomatic options between world leaders can be used to try to stop it, with war being last resort... real life stuff... not 'he's going to get nukes, only option is war'.

When the answer is 'Uhhh', that isn't good... and when the only thing that can be said, is the leader is full-screen now... Blah...

Tom
 
Unless I'm totally mistaken, there was some talk about the ability to trade land, which I hope is the case! Also, whilst they're revamping the culture system, I hope they've considered the ability of "culture" to move into foreign cities via trade routes, & adopted the Culture Conquest Mod designed for CivIV. These two features have the potential to make culture an even *more* interesting part of the game. Speaking of culture, this was another fantastic concept which was poorly implemented in CivIII, but still made the cut (in a vastly improved form) in CivIV & now CivV. Why are the developers so scared of religion that they feel the need to effectively cut it from the game without giving it a proper chance? Polls here indicate that religion was a very popular part of CivIV, so why abandon something which the majority of hard-core fans like? Doesn't make sense to me!

Aussie.
 
I must admit that I'm disappointed in the removal of religions from the game. They did help a lot with public happiness, culture, research, and made diplo more interesting.

I think it's still way to early to try and speculate on these kind of things. All speculation on announced features has come with the assumption that features not mentioned yet won't change. the fact is, we don't know how economy, technology, government, diplomacy (we've heard bits and pieces but nothing solid), happiness and healthiness will work. heck, we don't even know how unit strengths will be represented. I'm reserving all judgment until we get solid info, screens of UI, that level of assurance.
 
Maybe it's different kinds of culture they mean? For example you can have one culture that gives bonuses to your military and another civ has one that boosts the economy... I don't know..
 
I like religion (even though I´m an atheist :p) in Civ 4. It is such a natural process of aligning different civs with or against each other. However, without the next natural step to make each religion unique, I can´t say I´m that sad to see it go. Firaxis clearly have shown they are too afraid to be controversial hence no different religion traits, no Hitler, no terrorists...
 
I like religion (even though I´m an atheist :p) in Civ 4. It is such a natural process of aligning different civs with or against each other. However, without the next natural step to make each religion unique, I can´t say I´m that sad to see it go. Firaxis clearly have shown they are too afraid to be controversial hence no different religion traits, no Hitler, no terrorists...

Speeking of which we're all big boy's and girls here why can't we have these "controversial" elements? I mean in civ3 they had Gurillas and I mean isn't that technically a terrorist:mischief:
 
That may just be assuming bad faith (no pun intended) on behalf of the developers, really. It's just as possible that they simply are pointing out that monotheistic religions have basically all appeared after the development of polytheistic religions in the area (Abrahamic religions, for example, in Judea; Sikhism), and thus like how Communism usually comes after Democracy in your average Civ IV research path, while it is chronologically later, it's not necessarily more advanced. But Theocracy probably shouldn't be tethered to Monotheism: you should get to have as many Tibets as you do Irans, but that may just be the devs being shortsighted or trying to give Monotheism more value, especially if they're sapping religions from being tied to them.

I get your point, but what I'm saying is not necessarily that the developers say that monotheism is more advanced than polytheism, but that they're saying that monotheism always comes after polytheism. Not all "polytheistic" religions evolve into monotheism; some, like Hinduism, developed into... the unique religion they developed into.

Then again, it doesn't really matter per se, and as the developers said in Civ4, they're not theologians, so I'll have to grudgingly accept this.

I'm just kind of sad religions have to go down the drain, even with all the interesting new features.
 
Speeking of which we're all big boy's and girls here why can't we have these "controversial" elements? I mean in civ3 they had Gurillas and I mean isn't that technically a terrorist:mischief:

I'm hoping for Gorillas in ciV. :p
Might actually make national parks worthwhile if you could protect them. Maybe a whale or elephant sanctuary.

I'm sure they'll have some form of religion in the social policies thing. I hope it's actually done well though.
 
PC Jeux
Sindhforces posted this on another forum, coming from the french PC Jeux:

- Civ 5 is made for PC and, therefore, gameplay isn't lessened by any means.
- Some experience was gained from Revolution and it will enhance the accessibility and staging of the game.
- More clarity in the drawing of detroits, mountain passes and river tracks.
- An "African-type" continent doesn't have anything to do with a nordic-type or an asian type continent.
- Steep terrain will slow down your expansion.
- Elizabeth will favor maritime supremacy.
- Napoleon will build a BIG BIG -or a very huge- army.
- Bismarck will maximize the industrial output of his nation.
- Assimilation of a newly conquered city will make your "Overall Happiness" drop.
- The military unit upkeep is also tied to the "Overall Happiness" mechanism.
- No more "Spearmen defeated Tanks" since now an heavily damaged Tank will still be a hundred time more performing than an healthy Legion.[Off/HP]
- Limited next war at the end of the game.
- Religion, alongside with Ecology and Tyranny is a development model.
- Religion path => Polytheism - Monotheism - Theocracy
- Tyranny path => Despotism - Absolute Monarchy - Fascism
- Traditonal path
- Democratic path

The social path system is replacing religion, as well as civics.
 
Speeking of which we're all big boy's and girls here why can't we have these "controversial" elements? I mean in civ3 they had Gurillas and I mean isn't that technically a terrorist:mischief:

The word terrorist is a politically charged pejorative used to dehumanize and disenfranchise your enemies. Terrorists in and of themselves are not really controversial. Labeling specific groups as terrorist groups can indeed be controversial but that goes for pretty much any negative group label.

In my view, the only topic that's really taboo in Civ is Hitler and only because it'd keep the game out of the German market. Nearly everything else has been tried at some point or another. Heck, even genocide is possible, just raze all their cities instead of capturing them.
 
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