What's a Born Again Christian?

[Mauer]

I tend to agree with both of you. The bible doesn't say that Ganhdi is going to hell, it just tells what people have to do to escape it. Whether he made that one act of faith in Jesus Christ as the risen Son of God, I can not say. His life and things he said during that life would point towards him not having done that though.

 

[MobBoss]

So let me get this straight mobboss....

If you see someone say they are not christian you tell them they are going to hell....



Dude that is just rude.

Oh no. Dont get me wrong...I never, EVER fire the first salvo. Typically if someone tells me they are not a christian I just smile and say "good luck with that" or something to that effect.

However, if someone tries to make the point that non-christian X will make it into heaven because he is a "good guy" then I will fire broadsides until all movement of the enemy ceases...all the while backing up my position with biblical scripture as proof.

Nah, I never ever start such arguements...but I do make sure I am prepared for them before hand.

 

[Xanikk999]

Oh no. Dont get me wrong...I never, EVER fire the first salvo. Typically if someone tells me they are not a christian I just smile and say "good luck with that" or something to that effect.

However, if someone tries to make the point that non-christian X will make it into heaven because he is a "good guy" then I will fire broadsides until all movement of the enemy ceases...all the while backing up my position with biblical scripture as proof.

Nah, I never ever start such arguements...but I do make sure I am prepared for them before hand.

Good luck with that? Thats probably rude itself.

And how can you honestly ever argue someones going to hell? Biblical scripture was written by people wether you want to beileve it or not.

A damn book doesnt just fall out of the sky.

 

[GenMarshall]

Then I humbly submit that you are out of order in your thinking on this with how Jesus does. Again, I suggest you put emotion out of it and seek wisdom by reading Jesus own words instead of some knee-jerk reaction.

What knee-jerk reaction? I dont see how I am out of order in my thinking on this. Also I see it as an insult to my own beliefs and opinion since I dont consider my views "out of order". I believe strongly in religious tolerance and religious pluralism, not religious exclusiveness.

Of course it does.

Its simply not right to place this blame on the Jews since they have not done anything. How would you like it if you were placed in a devout Jewish man's shoes and an Evangical Christian told you what you have told me?

Do you think God cares about your own moral compass or with what he expects of us? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I believe that God does care about my own moral compass. He does expect me to love thy neighbor and thy self as well. As for the road to hell paved with good intentions junk, I just have to laugh at that Protestant threat since I am starting to see that hell is used as a scare tactic to get people inline.

Well, since I do not see any biblical affirmation of that belief, I will simply have to disagree with you and once more stick with Jesus.

The "Holyer than thous" are getting quite annoying. You are free to disagree on my beliefs but simply just saying "once more stick with Jesus" to me is being holyer than thou.

 

[JollyRoger]

MobBoss, do you think, in this day and age, that it is necessary to be baptized as an adult? If one is not baptized, but still accepts Jesus as his Lord & Saviour, do you thimnk that person would that person make it into heaven?

 

[MobBoss]

Good luck with that? Thats probably rude itself.

/shrug. Most of the time if someone is making their belief an issue they a) Know I am a christian and b) trying to provoke a response from me.

So they get it. Usually more than they expected.

But I dont go around telling people they are going to hell. What do you think I am? An idiot?

And how can you honestly ever argue someones going to hell? Biblical scripture was written by people wether you want to beileve it or not.

A damn book doesnt just fall out of the sky.

Well, I can argue it as the bible is pretty darn straight forward on who goes to heaven and who doesnt and what is expected of people if they do want to go to heaven. Fairly simple actually. Please note that the debate isnt that the bible is right or wrong, its that what it says. Considering that, it makes the arguement very easy.

 

[MobBoss]

MobBoss, do you think, in this day and age, that it is necessary to be baptized as an adult? If one is not baptized, but still accepts Jesus as his Lord & Saviour, do you thimnk that person would that person make it into heaven?

Necessary? No. I dont think it necessary. I think all that is truly required is to pray the sinners prayer and accept Jesus as your lord and master and give your life over to him. Getting dunked in a tank/well/pond/ocean/bay/inlet/river/bathtub/lake etc. etc. is a purely symbolic reference to what is done in your heart.

 

[GenMarshall]

And how can you honestly ever argue someones going to hell? Biblical scripture was written by people wether you want to beileve it or not.

I would disagree somewhat on that. I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that it was written down by the prophets and other Biblical people after being inspired by God. However, I do also hold that some translations could have been an error when going from Hebrew to Greek to Latin. Even as a beginner in Japanese I should know that translation from one language oftenly relys on how well the person interperates the text.

Oh no. Dont get me wrong...I never, EVER fire the first salvo. Typically if someone tells me they are not a christian I just smile and say "good luck with that" or something to that effect.

I hope youre comfortable having that thought "That person is going to hell" in your mind insted of praying for his conversion.

However, if someone tries to make the point that non-christian X will make it into heaven because he is a "good guy" then I will fire broadsides until all movement of the enemy ceases...all the while backing up my position with biblical scripture as proof.

So you fire broadsides just because someone holds one belief. Now I wonder why many people tend to get annoyied with Christians who are "holyer than thou". Somehow fireing broadsides on an individual who believes that a non-Christian has a chance to heaven is just attacking another person's beliefs which is downright rude.

 

[MobBoss]

What knee-jerk reaction? I dont see how I am out of order in my thinking on this.

The minute anyone doesnt care what Jesus says regarding an issue but would rather refer to their own 'inner compass" then they are out of order if they are a christian.

Say for example, if I thought adultery was ok since I felt it wasnt that big of a deal according to my 'inner compass'. Would that make it right according to the bible?

Also I see it as an insult to my own beliefs and opinion since I dont consider my views "out of order". I believe strongly in religious tolerance and religious pluralism, not religious exclusiveness.

Thats all well and good. Now please consider: ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Its about God. What do you think God believes and says? Is God religiously intolerant? Yes. Do you think God thinks its ok that you are a hindu, but a nice guy? Nope. Think about it. God is very religiously exclusive. God is very much 'you are either with me, or against me' and if you are even just lukewarm about it, he will spit you out of his mouth. Be either hot or cold, but not lukewarm. Be either for him, or against him, but not wishy-washy.

Its simply not right to place this blame on the Jews since they have not done anything. How would you like it if you were placed in a devout Jewish man's shoes and an Evangical Christian told you what you have told me?

I am not placing the blame on the Jews at all, but merely pointing out what Jesus said about getting into heaven under the new convenant. Do you think Jesus came to bring salvation to the Jews as well as the Gentiles? Or did he only come for non-jews? Again, please think about it.

I believe that God does care about my own moral compass. He does expect me to love thy neighbor and thy self as well. As for the road to hell paved with good intentions junk, I just have to laugh at that Protestant threat since I am starting to see that hell is used as a scare tactic to get people inline.

/shrug. I recommend you read your bible more.

The "Holyer than thous" are getting quite annoying.

I never said I am holier than thou and I never would. However, I can read what Jesus said very simply. If that annoys you /shrug.

You are free to disagree on my beliefs but simply just saying "once more stick with Jesus" to me is being holyer than thou.

I dont care if you were Billy Graham or the pope....if Jesus said one thing and the pope and/or Billy Graham said another...I would go with Jesus everytime. Thats not being holier than thou...thats just being consistent. Which, in my opinion, is something christians today need more than ever.

 

[MobBoss]

I hope youre comfortable having that thought "That person is going to hell" in your mind insted of praying for his conversion.

Actually, that is not the first thought I have in my head at all when I meet new people. And I do pray for the lost routinely. But being older, I also know what in-your-face evangelism can do to people, thus I dont advocate it. I use tact and wait for someone to ask me about something, then and only then do I respond. In my experience, this has worked very well in reaching people that are curious about Christianity.

So you fire broadsides just because someone holds one belief. Now I wonder why many people tend to get annoyied with Christians who are "holyer than thou". Somehow fireing broadsides on an individual who believes that a non-Christian has a chance to heaven is just attacking another person's beliefs which is downright rude.

You completely misunderstood. I fire broadsides because someone has come to argue with me, not because of their belief. The rude person is the person who gets in my face because they think I am wrong. I merely respond to their accusation with biblical scripture and wisdom. Thats never rude, but rather....appropriate.

 

[Solver]

A question to you Christians. You (obviously) take the Bible to be true, and can use what it says as an argument in a discussion. My question is, though, do non-Christians ever take these arguments seriously, seeing how non-Christians do not consider the Bible (the New Testament at least) to be true/important/the word of God?

 

[JollyRoger]

A question to you Christians. You (obviously) take the Bible to be true, and can use what it says as an argument in a discussion. My question is, though, do non-Christians ever take these arguments seriously, seeing how non-Christians do not consider the Bible (the New Testament at least) to be true/important/the word of God?

As an unborn again non-Christian, I think the Bible is mostly untrue (there are some true historical facts in it and some of the teachings of Jesus are very wise to live by), but it sure is fun to use Biblical scripture in a religious debate when a fundy starts the scripture quoting war.

 

[Solver]

That's what I'm talking about. I imagine that almost all non-Christians would have the same view, that parts of Bible may be true and/or wise, but that Biblical quotes do not prove anything. Hence, sounds like the scripture argument only works among Christians.

 

[GenMarshall]

The minute anyone doesnt care what Jesus says regarding an issue but would rather refer to their own 'inner compass" then they are out of order if they are a christian.

Say for example, if I thought adultery was ok since I felt it wasnt that big of a deal according to my 'inner compass'. Would that make it right according to the bible?

It would not make it right according to the bible, but it does not give me the right to call another person Christian or not that they are out of order.

Thats all well and good. Now please consider: ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Its about God. What do you think God believes and says? Is God religiously intolerant? Yes. Do you think God thinks its ok that you are a hindu, but a nice guy? Nope. Think about it. God is very religiously exclusive. God is very much 'you are either with me, or against me' and if you are even just lukewarm about it, he will spit you out of his mouth. Be either hot or cold, but not lukewarm. Be either for him, or against him, but not wishy-washy.

That may be your view of God. However I have a different view of God in that is quite benevolent, religiously tolerant, and religiously plural.

I am not placing the blame on the Jews at all, but merely pointing out what Jesus said about getting into heaven under the new convenant. Do you think Jesus came to bring salvation to the Jews as well as the Gentiles? Or did he only come for non-jews? Again, please think about it.

Jesus did came in to bring salvation for all. But dont forget, that God gave us free will to chose to accept Jesus or reject him. Personaly, I would not hold a person who rejects Jesus accountable for their actions. God would most certanly not hold a person accountable for rejecting Jesus becaue God did gave us freewill to chose. If God wanted us to accept Jesus he would have not given us freewill.

I recommend you read your bible more.

I do read the Bible. However I keep in mind that there is a possiblility of translation errors as well as think outside the box and not have one's head crammed in the Bible.

I dont care if you were Billy Graham or the pope....if Jesus said one thing and the pope and/or Billy Graham said another...I would go with Jesus everytime. Thats not being holier than thou...thats just being consistent. Which, in my opinion, is something christians today need more than ever.

So if Jesus told you to jump off a bridge, you would jump off a bridge?

 

[Mauer]

A question to you Christians. You (obviously) take the Bible to be true, and can use what it says as an argument in a discussion. My question is, though, do non-Christians ever take these arguments seriously, seeing how non-Christians do not consider the Bible (the New Testament at least) to be true/important/the word of God?

Well, at one point I was a non-christian believe it or not. I also had those pesky bible thumpers annoying the heck out of me. I never took the arguments seriously at the time, but obviously at some point I did. We are sowers. Some seed falls on good soil, some on bad. All I do is sow seed and God works on that person to grow it. Some of you will never believe, which of you I have no idea. But....some of you may believe at one point or another, which is why we proudly proclaim Christ as Lord.

@CG- So if the Pope told you to jump off a bridge would you jump? Ridiculous indeed.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

So if Jesus told you to jump off a bridge, you would jump off a bridge?

Of course he would, as would any good Christian. What's your point here?

The argument here between you and MobBoss is pretty futile. MobBoss believes in the Bible as the only authority, separate from the Church which created it, whereas the Catholic view is of scripture as a part of the Church whole. There's really not alot of room for reconciliation because firstly both sides have different authorities for judgments on all issues (Bible vs. Church) and the only common ground, the scriptures, is still changed by interpretation which in Catholicism is reserved to the Magisterium whereas for a Prostestant such as MobBoss interpretation is the purview of the individual.

 

[GenMarshall]

There's really not alot of room for reconciliation because firstly both sides have different authorities for judgments on all issues (Bible vs. Church) and the only common ground, the scriptures, is still changed by interepretation which in Catholicism is reserved to the Magisterium whereas for a Prostestant such as MobBoss interpretation is the purview of the individual.

I do agree that there is nothing much Catholicism can do for reconciliation between Catholicism and Protestantism. Personaly, I see the reconsiliation between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox more plausable.

@CG- So if the Pope told you to jump off a bridge would you jump? Ridiculous indeed.

Now that was uncalled for . Even if the pope told me to jump off a bridge, I would still refuse to jump.

Of course he would, as would any good Christian. What's your point here?

I just believe that one should not follow strictly on just the Bible and not alowing themselves to think for their own selves as an individual,

 

[Mauer]

Not uncalled for at all. Your initial question was uncalled for.

 

[GenMarshall]

Not uncalled for at all. Your initial question was uncalled for.

Well, I am sorry if my initial question was uncalled for. I humbily retract that question.

 

[Mauer]

no worries