Whats in a name?

[Bozo Erectus]

I made a thread about this months ago, as usual everyone disagreed with me but recently I saw a documentary that made me see it even more clearly than I had before.

When African people are abducted, taken from their homes, and forced to work for no pay, in cruel and inhumane conditions, we call it slavery, and these unfortunate people are called 'slaves'. We accept unquestioningly the new label given to them by their 'masters'. Henceforth, we call these people 'slaves'.

So far we're still on the same page, right?

Now, bearing in mind what I said above, why is it that when the same thing is done to beautiful Eastern European women, who are forced into prostitution against their will, its not called slavery, its called human trafficking, and we all refer to these women as victims, and not 'whores'?

 

[YNCS]

It used to be called white slavery.

 

[C~G]

we all refer to these women as victims, and not 'whores'?

"Whore" is offending term as it historically refers to women who are immoral, by selling themselves or offering themselves multiple men for free.

So calling them whores would mean that these women are doing it based on their own will rather than those that abduct them.

I would call them prostitutes and possible victims of human trade.

Some women still do it because they want to do it.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

It used to be called white slavery.

Yeah I know, Ive heard it called that in the past. Slavery is slavery, shouldnt matter how dark skinned the victims are. Its basically the same thing Im talking about. Why should slavery be called something different depending on the race of the victims?

Why isnt the practice in Africa commonly reffered to as 'human trafficking'? Our choice of words in common speech can be revealing of what 'really' think.


CG, let me make clear that Im not discussing the pros and cons of prostitution. Sure, some women choose that occupation. Im not talking about them. Im not even really talking about the plight of women who are forced into it against their will and taken away far from their homes and families. Im talking about us, the language we use, and what it reveals about us as a society.

You say we dont call them 'whores' because its an insulting term. Yet we dont seem to find calling black people 'slaves' to be offensive. Why is that, IYO?

 

[YNCS]

Slave is a discription of socio-economic status. Since few if any slaves entered into slavery voluntarily, I don't see how it could be an insult.

 

[C~G]

Are you Bozo offended if I call you a slave? How about a whore?
You see, it's natural instinct that we hold the latter as offensive.
As said it's deeply inside our culture.

Like YNCS said, It refers to the idea that even though both has to do with insulting sociological position full of shame, the slave hasn't chosen his disgraceful position, whore has.

And of course there's the fact most people don't know the actual history behind either of those words but more likely they current connonations coming from last century or so.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Slave is a discription of socio-economic status. Since few if any slaves entered into slavery voluntarily, I don't see how it could be an insult.

Then why dont we call the European women who are being trafficked 'slaves'?

edit: CG, my reply covers your comment as well.

 

[YNCS]

That question is a non-sequitur. Why don't we call them arglebargles? They're not called slaves because they're not called slaves (or arglebargles).

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Arglebargles! Youve anticipated my next thread topic

When blacks are kidnapped, theyre slaves. When beautiful blondes are kidnapped, theyre called victims, or 'trafficked persons',and thats just the way it is, and thats that? Hmmm...

 

[Verbose]

Then why dont we call the European women who are being trafficked 'slaves'?

Where I'm sitting the tabloids regularily refer to them as "sex slaves" ("sexslavar").

So I can't really see any unwillingness to equate trafficking with slavery.

With the exception that historically slavery was perfectly legal, until abolished, and took a considerable variety of forms. So has prostitution, and it's still legal (in most countries). While trafficking isn't.

It entails the abduction and coercion through the use of force, which are in themself criminal acts. But they're only means to an end here, which is providing a market of punters with fresh "meat", i.e. prostitution, which is on the other hand legal.
So trafficking refers to a fairly specific illegal situation, while slavery and prostitution have meant lots of things.

 

[C~G]

Then why dont we call the European women who are being trafficked 'slaves'?

As Verbose points out some people do call them slaves.

There are groups that "protect the rights of women" which say that these women are slaves in every meaning of the word and no women ever would choose by their own will the position they are on.
So by that logic they could be called slaves because they are forced to do their current "job" because of their low socio-economical status before which forces them to work as prostitutes. So they use the word for all prostitution.

The historical reference to "slavs" is quite interesting still.

When blacks are kidnapped, theyre slaves. When beautiful blondes are kidnapped, theyre called victims, or 'trafficked persons',and thats just the way it is, and thats that? Hmmm...

You have to elaborate more because YNCS is right, we could then call them "Arglebargles" if our explanations for the words used aren't enough for you.

Or are you referring the idea that there might hypocrisy because we call blacks as slaves while whites especially women are referred as victims?
Are you suggesting that "slave" is actually racist term while "victim" only refers to the complete innocence of the subject in question?
I don't think so because as mentioned in some where the word "sexslave" is used referring to trafficking.

Other that those points, we're circling around your point of gravity and we're not finding the logical center of this issue.

 

[Lotus49]

Why isnt the practice in Africa commonly reffered to as 'human trafficking'? Our choice of words in common speech can be revealing of what 'really' think.

Because the Slave Coast is in Africa. That's what it's officially known as, alright. Just like the Skeleton Coast to the South, Ivory Coast to the West, etc.

That part of Africa is more synonymous with 'slaves' than any other part of the world. Thus, the term comes up pretty readily, when referring to people from that area who are, in fact, enslaved.

 

[3 EMS]

Why wasn't a Roman slave called a Roman trafficked person or a Roman victem or a Roman conquered person?

I have a couple thoughts on this:

Political Correctness- It is no longer accepted to call someone lame if they can't move a limb. We don't call people dumb if they can't talk.

Slave- Used to be an actuall position in society. These trafficked girls are more like kidnap victems than actuall slaves.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Verbose, yes Ive heard them called 'sex slaves'. Not as often though. The terms used depend on the context. A newspaper wont sell many papers with a headline that says TRAFFICKED PERSONS!. However, use 'SEX SLAVES!', and the paper will fly off the shelves. Even in that context, theyd be unlikely to call whats happening 'slavery'.

People seem to agree that the word slave comes with alot of historical baggage, from when it was legal and considered a legitimate business. Thats true, but slavery isnt a thing of the past, its happening today, right now. Yet we still call the victims of this practice 'slaves', provided that they arent a beautiful blonde European woman. In that case, we're much more likely to call them trafficked women, or persons, or just victims (by 'we' I mean our media)

Or are you referring the idea that there might hypocrisy because we call blacks as slaves while whites especially women are referred as victims?
Are you suggesting that "slave" is actually racist term while "victim" only refers to the complete innocence of the subject in question?
I don't think so because as mentioned in some where the word "sexslave" is used referring to trafficking.

All Im saying is that words have power, what we call someone indicates what we think of them. Using different terms depending on the race of the victim, seems to indicate that we think of them differently. Ok look at this sentence: 'Lincoln freed the slaves'. What does it say to you?

Other that those points, we're circling around your point of gravity and we're not finding the logical center of this issue.

Home in on my distress signal Captain.

 

[Gallienus]

In Britain, neither the government or the main opposition party are particularly bothered about things like Eastern European women forced into prostitution or any of the other abuses of illegal/semi-legal immigrants; a common trick is for criminal gangs to lend them the money they need to make the journey and get them to work it off when they arrive - the interest rate is so high that they have no chance of ever paying off the debts, and they are hardly in a position to complain to the authorities. Our economy is becoming increasingly dependant on the cheap labour that human trafficking provides, particularly in farming and the construction industry. Ironically, both main political parties and most of the media seem to make immigrants the scapegoats for every problem the country has.

"Slave trade" is a more emotive term than "human trafficking", and its widespread use by the media might make people uncomfortable about what's going on. And if we start emphasising with the plight of illegal immigrants, our political leaders would have to find someone else to blame when they mess up.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

In Britain, neither the government or the main opposition party are particularly bothered about things like Eastern European women forced into prostitution or any of the other abuses of illegal/semi-legal immigrants; a common trick is for criminal gangs to lend them the money they need to make the journey and get them to work it off when they arrive - the interest rate is so high that they have no chance of ever paying off the debts, and they are hardly in a position to complain to the authorities. Our economy is becoming increasingly dependant on the cheap labour that human trafficking provides, particularly in farming and the construction industry. Ironically, both main political parties and most of the media seem to make immigrants the scapegoats for every problem the country has.

"Slave trade" is a more emotive term than "human trafficking", and its widespread use by the media might make people uncomfortable about what's going on. And if we start emphasising with the plight of illegal immigrants, our political leaders would have to find someone else to blame when they mess up.

I think youve hit on a very fundemental truth. There are trafficked people doing all sorts of jobs, not just prostitution. As you say, to a certain extent our economic stability is dependent on them, just as it is on illegal immigrants. Calling all of these people 'slaves' could upset the apple cart because it would lead to a public backlash against the activity. All true I think that could explain alot of it, but I think its not the whole story. I think plain old fashioned racism towards blacks is mixed up in it too.

 

[sanabas]

I think youve hit on a very fundemental truth. There are trafficked people doing all sorts of jobs, not just prostitution. As you say, to a certain extent our economic stability is dependent on them, just as it is on illegal immigrants. Calling all of these people 'slaves' could upset the apple cart because it would lead to a public backlash against the activity. All true I think that could explain alot of it, but I think its not the whole story. I think plain old fashioned racism towards blacks is mixed up in it too.

I haven't noticed a difference in the terminology used, because I don't recall seeing any stories anytime recently about slavery in Africa. Maybe if a story was done, they'd call it human trafficking as well. I'd call both the african & european examples slavery. Because that's what it is.

 

[Winner]

It is called "obchod s bílým masem" (white meat trade) here. I agree that slavery would be a better term for that.

 

[Abaddon]

erm, never heard the phrase "sex slave" Bozo?

Human trafficing is the moveing of the women, not their label.

 

[bhsup]

Yeah I know, Ive heard it called that in the past. Slavery is slavery, shouldnt matter how dark skinned the victims are. Its basically the same thing Im talking about. Why should slavery be called something different depending on the race of the victims?

I agree with you entirely, Bozo. It is slavery, pure and simple.