What's Next? Help on this Isolated Start...?

I have a suggestion for your Monarch aspirations Fid, try the LHCs and the Nobles Clubs at Monarch. They are sort of "Monarch Light" since the AIs dont get their bonus starting tech, Archery, but everything else is at Monarch. Its a good step between the levels.

I suggest the Hannibal LHC from a few months back, and the Kublai Khan NC from a couple months ago. Both of those had some solid learning strategies to play. Then you can check the threads, see how you did compared to other players, etc. I dont have the links, but all the LHCs are linked in Rolo's bullpen and all the NCs are linked in my NC bullpen. The reason I suggest the Hannibal LHC is that its similar to yours in a way, coastal border pops allows you to meet some AIs pre-Optics, so you arent "truly" isolated. The KK NC is just a free-for-all Conquest game that has some solid opponents, and is a good Pangaea Domination Learner with a super strong Warmongering leader.

Great suggestions Bleys. I was thinking about just such a thing and saw your watery leaders thread. At the moment I'm leaning toward the KK, just bcs all this peaceful slogging, edifying and pristine though it may be, is bringing out the desire to take matters into my own hands and force a conclusion...Pana-ME-ahhhhahaha!! :mwaha:

Edit: Man, I just looked at Monarchists cookbook and this whole play-the-best-ball concurrent succession game is far too cool (and isn't that Diamondeye neat and tidy in his formating?). Btwn that and the Nobles Club to ease me into Monarch and the LHC...and the PYL, with different leaders starting on different parts of the map...seeing it through the map from several perspetives flug, that's intriguing...yeah I'm gonna have to quit my job.
 
Great suggestions Bleys. I was thinking about just such a thing and saw your watery leaders start. At the moment I'm leaning toward the KK, just bcs all this peaceful slogging, edifying and pristine though it may be, is bringing out the desire to take matters into my own hands and force a conclusion...Pana-ME-ahhhhahaha!! :mwaha:

PYL IV doesn't have to be peaceful. Indeed, you can war for slaughter on almost any map, the opportunity is always there :devil:.
 
OK, thanks for the info Fidardorist.

I think the population-UN vote game consists of counting city-pop numbers. So, you've got 204, based on the screenshot of your empire. Count all the other civs, too (or post screenshots -- Boudica's at 103 by my count). Now, it's possible that you can massage Caesar into 2nd place, e.g. by gifting him biology or a happy/health resource. Especially if he's close to Hannibal, that may be the way to go.
 
If Hannibal's pop is way above Caesar's, then a diplo victory is a much bigger uphill battle. You might still have the win with Napoleon+Gilgamesh+Boudica, and out of these, Boudica's the only uncertain vote right now. If you can't get her vote peacably, you could go to war for it (try to avoid a diplo hit with Gigamesh here, if possible).
 
If Hannibal's pop is way above Caesar's, then a diplo victory is a much bigger uphill battle. You might still have the win with Napoleon+Gilgamesh+Boudica, and out of these, Boudica's the only uncertain vote right now. If you can't get her vote peacably, you could go to war for it (try to avoid a diplo hit with Gigamesh here, if possible).

Hanny is way above Caesar in pop. I'll do some calculatin' and if it looks like I can do it w\Boudica, I'll court her vote and head that way, with space as a back up. Unless our esteemed author/poster somehow persuades me to take the trouble to turn it into a scuffle.
 
Hanny is way above Caesar in pop. I'll do some calculatin' and if it looks like I can do it w\Boudica, I'll court her vote and head that way, with space as a back up. Unless our esteemed author/poster somehow persuades me to take the trouble to turn it into a scuffle.

Hm, depending on how advanced caesar is - could you gift Mass Media to him and thus trick him into building the UN and becoming your opponent? (I never tried something like that, it also depends on JC's shiny-factor[how often he builds wonders])

A military route would seem hard, lacking :)-resources (and already scraping the happy cap in some cities even without WW)
 
Hm, depending on how advanced caesar is - could you gift Mass Media to him and thus trick him into building the UN and becoming your opponent? (I never tried something like that, it also depends on JC's shiny-factor[how often he builds wonders])

Says here in my trusty dusty printed pdf Beyond the Sword Reference patched to 3.13 by Anion (plug: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=11) Augustus C builds wonders 'very often.' Now this may have been the wrong time to do a plug bcs what I have often suspected bears out in this game too.* These wonders building indicators seem off. Caesar has been a units monger this game, but has only built one wonder, while Hannibal, listed at a wonders builder status of 'very rarely' has built 8, juzzabout matching yours truly who has been chastised on occasion for his attachement to the lovely edifices.

So this is a very high risk strategy, which none the less would:
a) save me the hammers on the UN
b) be hilarious if it worked
c) be a bit of a face saver/gesture toward experimentation while taking the easy-out default of Space.

As it is I feel as if I'm being forced into the firmament by the circumstances of the game. The invitation is there if someone wants to step up and show me how it's done with the sword or the council from this 1760AD save. Please post your results in spoilers if you do...and the save. I want to see how much time it took you! :shifty:

A military route would seem hard, lacking :)-resources (and already scraping the happy cap in some cities even without WW)

My sentiments exactly. :hammer2:

*Still my unsolicited endorsement of the guide stands. While it's analysis of leader tendencies can be open to interpretation (though I still want to beleive that Saladin, Sitting Bull and a bunch of others simply CAN NOT attack me if they are pleased), the other factual stuff is generally quite accurate and it's a fantastic resource.
 
EDIT: Turns out I will lose no trade routes bcs. though the loss of the GLH will mean -2 trade routes, the technology of corporation gives you +1 trade route and the civic of free market unlocked by econ, one before, gives you +1 trade route. (Also good to keep in mind for trade warfare if you didn't get the GLH in the first place.) Then the custom houses from econ give 100% trade route yield which is a massive step forward. So this is a no brainer.
Economy is a no-brainer due to Free Market and Customs House. Corporation should be delayed in a TRE until you either (a) need it as a prereq for something else (Assembly Line...) or (b) have the Great Person and technology needed to found one of the strong corporations.

Until then Corporation can safely be postponed because it won't do you any good and lose you 1 trade route (-2 + 1 as you've pointed out).
 
Instead of gifting Caesar the techs to build the UN and then crossing your fingers, why not gift him the UN directly? Go to war, capture one of his cities, rush the UN there (hopefully with your 21% chance GE), then sue for peace and gift him back the UN city in the terms of the treaty. As long as you remain top in population, you'll get Hannibal, Napoleon, and Gilgamesh, which should be good for the win (is Hannibal close to you in population?).

Potential downsides:
-Caesar won't accept peace and you end up in a long war
-You don't get a GE, so you have to rush buy the UN from US ($$$$$)
-You lose the #1 pop. spot

Potential upsides:
-also hilarious
-possibly fast (with GE)
-you don't have to gift Caesar a ton of techs
 
Says here in my trusty dusty printed pdf Beyond the Sword Reference patched to 3.13 by Anion (plug: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=11) Augustus C builds wonders 'very often.'

Well, it is Julius Caesar, not Augustus, here .
JC is listed as builds wonders sometimes - so better build it yourself and gift it or the like.
Interesting document, anyways..

Considering another diplomatic option: where is the AP and to which religion belongs it (if it is still active) ?

Potential upsides:
-also hilarious
totally agree :lol:
 
1794 AD, Turn 407

Well I took Ultimocrats good advises,
Spoiler :
I think the population-UN vote game consists of counting city-pop numbers.
...did the calc and I was only a vote or two away from a UN victory if I got Boudy, so I decided...well I decided to just do both, space and Diplo, and play it straight. (How come I feel just a tad guilty about this? :huh:)...Plastics first bcs I loves me my Three Gorges. All that clean power from a central location...mmmm...

So I was cruising along w\the slider @ 90%, tweaking up the espionage so I could see what everyone was working on and moving toward Hollywood, R&R etc with Eiffel for the king-of-the-hill, sedate-the-public-with-costly-spectacle approach to happiness issues. Got a spy and a merch and hit that bronze gong to ring in another 15 turn Golden Age just to make it all happen w\alacrity. Choices based as much on fun factor as efficiency at this point. Continued piracy games: Meddling with Boudi/Nappy war trying to catch a troop shipment and sink 'em. Got one and several support vessels. Using destroyers for eyes.
Spoiler :
1794ADCleansingtheSeaofCrafts0000.jpg

Hey, the sooner they figure the war is futile, the sooner they'll turn toward domestic issues, prioritize growth and infrastruciture, and get me more votes. Rail network finishing touches. UN and the Dam done in the 9 remaining turns of the golden age and Apollo in the windshield.

Strength to Strength
1794ADpwnage0000.jpg


Cruising along, minding my own business not checking your posts...

When bam, there's an Apostolic election,

Spoiler :
Considering another diplomatic option: where is the AP and to which religion belongs it (if it is still active) ?
- Per Cheiron


and who do you think was heading the ballet? Yep, yours truly.
:woohoo::king::woohoo:
That was last turn. I think...I think...it was Hanny against me. Don't believe theres a way to check. How many turns of waiting on epic? Could this be true - me against Hanny and not Guilg, who built it? Either way, looks like I should get in. Right? Right....? Then it's just a question of getting Gilg to vote for me to beat him and win the game. That & maybe one other voter & voila! Am I missing anything here? The choice is whether to postpone the UN and just take it religious style. Either way, the space race will give me something to do while I wait for pontifical beurocracy to proceed. Here is the data and the save:

1794ADVotingBreakDownApostolicSt-2.jpg


1794ADResolutions0000.jpg




PS - @ Chieron: right you are - jules, not augustus- I sit corrected. :crazyeye: Still, it doesn't seem to alter the point much - can't count on those catagories. Just have to see in game what the wonder building tendencies are. I wonder if these vary with leaders across games, or it's consistent and the guide just somehow mis-ascribed them.

PPS - Kudos to blue marble and all but...since when does staring into the sun consist of an ideal aid to reviewing text and number rich data? It would be like taking a transparency from one of the overheads teach used back in the day and holding it up to the frackin' solar dynamo to analyze a bit of data. (Save your breath, I do realize that the image of the sun presented on the info screens is not in fact as bright as the actual sun, I just think the choice was a tad off the wall in the clarity department.
 

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I have Mass Media and am just a few turns from the UN...that's suppose to obsolete the AP. So why did I just get elected and appear to be occupying the palace?

Most unusual.

PS- 1812 Dogpile on Caesar and Hanny [Edit: that's Hatty, not Hannibal]. Just took first town with amphibious assault. So where's that massive stack hiding?
 
The AP does obsolete, when its owner acquires Mass Media, not the resident or any other player.. It would be hilarious but possible, if both UN and AP votes would come up in the same turn, yielding diplomatic victories (esp. if they are for different civs :mischief:).

The blue marble background is annoying, it's the only part that I always turn off.

PS: it's Chieron not Cheiron
 
1841 AD Turn 431

Well I was moving along with the knowledge that it won't be till Hannibal gets Mass Media that the AP goes obsolete (thanks again Chieron), and judging from the tech screen in the diplo menu, that could be enough time to get my AP victory. Fair enough. UN stays on hold in the capital.

Note: turns throughout this period are going at the rate of 2 years each but for the last turn. In 1840 it switches to 1 year increments.

Then In the year 1810 AD, once again a little surprise changed everything. All my allies declared on Caesar and his now-on-again-vassal Hatty. Merely to keep pace diplomatically, I knew I had to join in. With the Panzers online, I figured I should maybe make it worth my while. At that time I had four Panzers and a modest game plan, as below.

1810: Pre War Plan

1810ADWarPlan0000.jpg


I declared in 1814 and 13 turns later, propelled along by ,the rush of the blitz, we had subdued 11 towns and kept 9 of them. That's an average approaching one town taken per turn of the war. Troops lost: 1 panzer in a fluke 90% odds loss. Now I just have to rethink my economic game plan...

The key was speed and massive naval superiority. What happened was that we grabbed the first town, Shuruppak, in the NE, almost immediately with a naval strike on the four garrisons there. Then within a turn or two, we had taken it's Western neighbor Arpinium with the help of just enough panzers and footsoldiers. By this time, scouting had turned up Rome's massive naval fleet on the east coast in Setia.

In 1816, a newly minted destroyer from my easternmost town, home of the Maoa statues on a pointy peninsula, stumbled across a Carthaginian attack party of 4 troop ships. They were going to vulch Eastern most Mediolanum if I didn't get over there in a few turns.

1816: Hanny Hosing In

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That same year the Roman navy launched in the east. There were 7 caravels protecting 7 galleons, from what was visible before the list cut off on the screen. They would be on the shore of our continent in 2 turns if I didn't destroy them, but though I had a bunch of units they couldn't touch in terms of power, there was just one in position to strike that first turn & perhaps 6 the following. That would leave all the galleons, with their 21+ land units, presumably, unscathed. Bear in mind that there were just one or two archers or LB's garrisoned in most of my cities. That's a good reason to have a superior navy! So we banged away at them with the destroyers and then lined up in a naval barricade that would send them out to sea and not toward my land.

1818: Northern Rush & "You'll Just Have to Go Around"

1818ADNAssaultCornered.jpg


The risk was that seeing the threat, the Roman vessels would attempt to save their cargo of land troops by landing them at the nearest beachhead, which would have put them a tile away from the newly acquired Shuruppak where two infantry were doing some healing. Luckily, they weren't too clever and they attempted to go around my ships. :run: Needless to say, none of them made it to their destination.

Meanwhile, in the northwest, you can see the three transports, mostly 3/4 full, racing past Ravenna to snatch up Mediolanum before the Carthaginians could get there, with a destroyer or two to soften up the defenses with bombardment.

We got Medilanum and, several turns later, with war weariness beginning to set in, we controlled the North.

1828: Life in Four Northern Towns

1828FourRomanTownsforMe0000.jpg


At this point, Caesar launched his only counter attack to actually arrive, an SOD at the town of Ravenna. (You can see a canon in the tile to the east and there is more coming.) The panzers pretty much decimated them in the field with very little damage. That turned out to be a key move.

Later, we trapped and snuffed out a mass of Roman war production on the high seas for a second time.

1832: Where Do You Think Your Going?

1832CorneredFrig0000.jpg


This was 9 frigates and 3 galleons.

Meanwhile, on the domestic front, we built R&R (previously we'd had Broadway) and started on the massive Apollo project. A city popped up in the fog between Sitia and Antium. All those $ towns on the floodplains made it the first real money center, so it was hard to resist. As a result, though, Antium had to go. The pace accelerated with the bombers and the 5 transports working a relay to the east now. Julius kept offering Thebes for peace, which was tempting as it's a shrine town, but that meant we'd need to clear some more space. Why not take the Egyptian capital? Maybe Rome too?

In 1838 Rome, Antium, Memphis & Heliopolis were all in the crosshairs. But 4 of the Panzers to take the far eastern Heliopolis (with 6 defenders in it) were still on my continent, over 15 tiles away, mostly by sea...and one was a turn away from being built. 1840 Antium falls and Memphis is shelled down to one weakened survivor. And the four panzers have been relayed in that one turn via three transport to the shore off Heliopolis. (That trick of being able to load and unload without using movement point works btwn boats and not just in ports. EDIT- Not true. Movement points are expended, but you can load and unload even after the movement points are all used up, thus an unlimited amount of times.) 1841: down goes the one guy in Memphis & a panzer is advance in a feint toward Thebes. The four panzers outside on the shore of Heliopolis are joined by a fifth from the western theater. Meanwhile, Hatty has conveniently moved one defender out and the musket man one tile West (?) The destroyers have taken the defenses to 0%. The panzers blast in from the boats.

Outside of Rome, there are four panzers blasting away at 99% odds, on the 5 defenders, and the tanks all have 2 attacks each. He's down to one wounded pikeman. :spear: This is where it is time for clemency, me thinks. You can't destroy a nice capital like that (and don't need to...my city centers have plenty of cultural room to thrive). Besides, I don't need more maintenance, or, more to the point, the job of clearing or taking the cities around it, but I might be able to use it later. :mischief: At this point, the culture slider is at 50% and still not keeping everyone happy. And big picture, we had all the AP votes if we got Gilg, and for UN, we were nearing half the votes in the council. We sue for peace, and get Caesar to throw peace with Gilgy into his already sizable concessions.

1841: Peace Terms

1841PeaceTerms0000.jpg


And just to make sure we stay everybody's favorite, we bribe the others into peace so their war buddy bonuses don't exceed ours.

1841: Chill, Brother Hannibal

1841HannyPeace0000.jpg


1841: Nap it Off, Bonaparte

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1841: Post War, The New Map

1841PostWar10down0000.jpg


And that was the end of that war.

Building airports for the trade routes...but may have to break down and go to state property. I'm making about 18 gold trading out 5 of my 10 sushi type resources. Don't see it as a financial boon to go with Sid's Sushi. I'm holding out a Great Merchant for now in case I want to build up pop on this new Southern continent, and perhaps among my faithful constituency, in order to swell my constituency. Haven't ruled out another war down the road to storm the rest of the landmass, or at least give Thebes more breathing room. Soon I'll be at 80% sliders with positive cash flow...teching toward superconductor for something useful to build: labs. Refigeration for the speed getting there and the health...I think that was my reasoning.

Any thoughts on that old question, "What's Next?", very much invited.
 

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When Broadway is in ( 9 turns away ) and if you get eifell + R&R ( not that hard) , 10 % culture will cover that :mad: easily

.......

BTW you need to focus more your :espionage: ;)

Hey Rolo, I missed this post the first time. I register and appreciate your comments...thing about the nukes is that...aside from ruining infrastructure and etc the pollution, there's a diplo hit you take and I'm trying to win
a)AP victory
b)UN Victory
c)Space Race for Backup

The civics switch was probably a flub, but when the war started I was still battling the unhappy faces and... then I just couldn't afford the revolt time. I started cristo redentor and I think I was telling myself I'd worry about changing my civics then. Now that the war is over and Christo is probably 9 turns off, I am going to revisit this. No, I think I am going to rush to State Property once I look at it while actually awake.

...as it is, I got what I thought I wanted out of the war, but if something changes me to a domnation VC, I'll go to the nuclear option. And I am psyched to get my espionage sorted now too - see what everyone is researching. Couldn't keep up with war priorities.
 
Well it seems appropriate to do a quick sum up to tell how it all came out as a courtesy to the phantom lurker who actually cares. :hide:

In short, after much hesitation I decided to build the UN. This does not obsolete the AP as was correctly implied in this thread and specifically explained in my other favorite thread: Yup!

Never did get another vote from the AP and am thus still not clear on the timing of votes. Got elected to the UN in 1852 with no problems...

1852IheadUNvote0000.jpg


But then, 8 turns later in 1860 a vote comes up, I go for the Diplo V and that stubby little ingrate Nappy abstains on me!

JustShort0000.jpg


And after all I did for him! AI? Should have called them ammoral! :lol: Gave him techs then too, but still no budge on the love. May be that after a certain point in the game, say building the UN(?), massive tech gifts are devalued and no one cares.

So I decided to make war on my old whipping post Caesar and bribe France in as a war ally to further boost diplo vibes. Of course, the pop points alone from Caesars remaining cities would do for the victory. (I had previously snuffed out Hatty bcs her cap culture was imposing on my turf over there...And JC was annoying me by stuffing new cities near me to encroach on my culture borders...which helped motivate me.) Due to a reasonable in-times-of-peace-prepare-for-war mode, I had 8 units pre-loaded into a transport in the northwest prepared to assualt the only high-unit adversary city in the south west, and I had other transports coming in from the east to attack other coastal cities with only a couple defenders in each. An airport on the new continent obviated any awesome transport relays. The long and the short of it was that I took all his remaining towns (I think 8), including the island in three turns. My kind of industrial war.

Another vote came up reliably 8 turns later in 1868 and sure enough, we had enough to win.

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All the while my primary continent was being kept busy with space race builds for the most part...

Like I say, I was in pretty good shape there at the end it was just a question of the fastest win.

1868ADInfoScreen0000.jpg


At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseum, thanks again for the participation.
:thanx::high5::thanx:

I wonder if/hope that other new prince or borderline monarch players may have benefited from this thread. I know there are alot threads out there (The ALC, The MC, The LHC for esp for isolated starts to name a few) to get more experienced judgement/discussion on these levels, but maybe my blind spots match up to those of some others and thus provide something useful. If this is the case for you, feel free to chime in or drop me a line by PM. I'm considering doing another one of these down the road for my first real Monarch effort and am wondering if I should hog the boards with another thread.

3 back to back travel trips in the 'WTH w\this real life distraction bullshmocky' category will mean occasional check ins til say late June, but se la vie.



...and what's with Vale in the recent MC? Was he born with a Turbo Civ gene or something? The man's a menace. ;)
 
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