Whats so great about the Samurai?

[kamex]

From all i can see, it just starts with Shock 1, which any Longsword built in a city with a barracks can get...

I suppose that means if you have a Barracks you start with Shock 2, a step closer to March, but I can't see anything else interesting about them. Double GG points is a bit boring for me.

 

[KevinMiles90000]

With a barracks/armory you can get shock 3 right out of the gate. Combined with the Japanese UA makes them pretty deadly on the open plains.

 

[SureYouCan]

I think its the fact that right out of the box they can walk down nearly any unit of its era and come out on top. The only units I can think that would give them pause are mohawks upgraded to longswords in forests, keshiks... and maybe siam elephants?

 

[vexing]

it's only 60 exp to get march, only 100 to get march + blitz, instead of the normal 100/150. if you save promotions you can easily have your initial warrior march ready by the time you get to steel.

 

[MadDjinn]

With a barracks/armory you can get shock 3 right out of the gate. Combined with the Japanese UA makes them pretty deadly on the open plains.

This.

the UA is what makes Samurai powerful. The extra GG's you get from fighting is very good. Use them to pop for GAs as needed or allow for another army to move away from the first group.

Shock 1 effectively wipes out the open terrain penalty, so you can stand there and take the hits.

Some patch ago, they dropped the flatland penalty down to -10%, so before that point, getting a free shock promo, even if you set that unit up for rough terrain, meant that these units were outright better than anyone else in that era on flatlands for defense.

 

[Deau]

From all i can see, it just starts with Shock 1, which any Longsword built in a city with a barracks can get...

I suppose that means if you have a Barracks you start with Shock 2, a step closer to March, but I can't see anything else interesting about them. Double GG points is a bit boring for me.

Yeah its one level closer to march/blitz so you need much less experience to get those and speed up your first rush. Also they generate GG at double the rate and it's retained through promotions so over the course of the game it's a lot of extra GA. Last, Oda unique trait lines in great with it.

It's mainly through how everything lines up well together rather than just one or the other. Kind of like how the new berserker->ski infantry lineup is a very interesting total war upgrade path.

 

[Tabarnak]

When you are first to get Steel, Japan's UA has good synergy with Samurais. You can save a couple of turns of healing or attacking.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

You can leverage less units to accomplish much in war.

 

[snarzberry]

Samurai VS Beserker

Which do you guys think is the better longsword UU?

 

[Lyoncet]

Knights without weakness to spears and without a city attack penalty that are easier to beeline and get amphibious and whose next promotion gives them a movement and combat bonus are better than Shock I. In my opinion.

Honestly though, I've only played Denmark once, but Berserkers were absolutely stellar. I'd even say that even ignoring the ski infantry promotion potential, and taking Bushido into account, they are the superior UU. A Samurai will, of course, beat a Berserker on the field (as long as they're in open terrain and all other things being equal), but the extra movement and amphibious are just overwhelming, especially when coupled with the UA (even on Pangaea, you're going to have coastal operations). It's probably going to come down to a matter of opinion, but I find that the flexibility, maneuverability, and tactical superiority give a bigger advantage than an extra golden age and promotion. And then there's the fact that you upgrade them into Ski Infantry, which is almost as monstrous of a UU.

 

[SureYouCan]

We really shouldn't compare vanilla civs to the golden DLC civs. It's just not fair. Spain makes Songhai look silly. Berserkers make all other medieval units look silly. Pachachuti is spending 3 turns to make 1 food tile that can practically support their entire civilization while making Hiawatha go, "uhh... how come my frontline combat units don't start with woodsman again?"

 

[snarzberry]

Spain makes Songhai look silly.

Please explain?

I see no reason to not compare them, there are some average DLC civs and the units aren't all uber.

 

[qyll]

Yeah, DLC civs may or may not be better than vanilla civs. Songhai is one of the best civs in the game, as are China and France.

 

[Deau]

Samurai VS Beserker

Which do you guys think is the better longsword UU?

Def Berserkers to get much more out of your early rush and to have at least 2 movements even through hills is awesome for positionning tactics. the UA of Oda kinda makes up for it on a total war standard/standard. If the +1 movement of zerkers was a unique promotion rather than baseline, then it would be by far the better civ for dom.

We really shouldn't compare vanilla civs to the golden DLC civs. It's just not fair. Spain makes Songhai look silly. Berserkers make all other medieval units look silly. Pachachuti is spending 3 turns to make 1 food tile that can practically support their entire civilization while making Hiawatha go, "uhh... how come my frontline combat units don't start with woodsman again?"

I'll take Shongai over Spain any day for a warmongering game, triple pillaging outdoes natural wonders by a mile on those

terrace farm = riverside hills farm... it is very dependant on the map to actually be considered as an "OP" UI.

If you play hiawatha and don't have a woodsman frontline, it might be because you don't make proper use of units upgrades. The mohawk warrior upgraded can do that. Ultimately though on most maps, it won't do much for you offensively. Defensively, you hardly need frontline units...your ranged can hit and run and can't really be moved up to in one turn - thanks to forest + UA.

Personally aside from babylon, I don't really see any DLC civ as completely OP.

 

[vexing]

keshiks make any war easy.
babylon makes any victory easy - they're the most powerful civ hands down.

 

[MisterSaturnine]

keshiks make any war easy.
babylon makes any victory easy - they're the most powerful civ hands down.

Siam.

Their UU might not be top-tier, but it's damn good--get it good and early and you can steamroll a Civ or two, and it can be a relevant unit for an even longer window. The Wat is also a very useful UB, as it's an appreciable improvement on an already essential building, bolstered further by the ability to pop Wats with Legalism (which I don't think should be patched--it's damn hard to do, and is a creative use of synergy, which should be rewarded). And, of course, le pièce de résistance, their UA, which can make them just ridiculously powerful, and arguably the most powerful Civ in the game.

 

[gozpel]

You missed one thing about Samurais:

Bushido: Units fight as though they were at full strength even when damaged.

You can kill swords easily even at 3 hp, but LS can be tougher. But you have a chance to survive, in desperate moments.

One of my favourite units.

 

[Bibor]

From all i can see, it just starts with Shock 1, which any Longsword built in a city with a barracks can get...

I suppose that means if you have a Barracks you start with Shock 2, a step closer to March, but I can't see anything else interesting about them. Double GG points is a bit boring for me.

The extra Great generals are usually used for golden ages after the newly acquired puppets get out of revolt. Prosperity through warfare.

The Samurai are a great unit on the best upgrade path. They will serve as the core of your army (upgraded) until the end of the game.

 

[homerj]

I think also that the vast majority of strategies center around longswords. So you do not have to really deviate from a base strategy, as opposed to Mongolia or England. The samurai is just a better version of something you are making a lot of anyways.