What's the best city placement for this start?

[omnimirage]

https://postimg.cc/nXQSPLvd

Playing as Hatshepsut, Big and Small, Deity

Then what would be the best thing to build, and what would be the best thing to research in this start?

 

[Snowygerry]

It's not very fashionable - but I would settle in the blue circle and research agriculture

Edit, she starts with it apparently, more options then...

 

[omnimirage]

What do you think about settling on top of the Wheat, then researching Animal Husbandry and build a Settler?

 

[Anysense]

What do you think about settling on top of the Wheat, then researching Animal Husbandry and build a Settler?

There is no wheat as far as I can see. BTW, what is this forested greenhill silver? I don't think it can happen on B&S.

 

[omnimirage]

Sorry, I meant Corn, the food source, not Wheat.

Yes forested greenhill silver, I'm actually using the map "not too big or small", and AdvCiv Mod, maybe that's why.

 

[shakabrade]

1W gets more land and loses nothing. Build worker, tech Mining, BW, Fishing, improve the corn, build the mine, road to the silver, chop silver forest into a Workboat, build a silver mine.

 

[Anysense]

Yep, on a second thought 1W gives a chance to gain something without loosing anything. Settling on the corn does not make sense. Gain 1 now and loose 2 a bit later. Thats not a good trade.

 

[Fippy]

Yup 1w, Corn gives 6 after CS so you never want to settle on those unless there are urgent early benefits (like cannot be irrigated with hills in the way, or not starting with Agri and there are many other resis).

 

[krikav]

Well, if you are playing a mod, then things might be radically different. Post in some sub-forum dedicated to the mod itself or mods in general.

 

[omnimirage]

I counted the differences in values when the city has grown to four:

3(f) 1(h) 1(c) (city)
5 0 2 (fish)
1 2 5 (silver)
3 0 2 (lake)
1 3 0 (grassland mine)

total: 13 (f) 6 (h) 10 (c)


2(f) 1(h) 1(c) (city)
5 0 2 (fish)
1 2 5 (silver)
5 0 0 (corn)
1 3 0 (mine)

total:
14 (f) (6 h) 8 (c)

As said, with CS more food can be gained from not settling on the Corn, so more value would be generated in the long run by not settling on the Corn.

By settling on the Corn, a somewhat faster early game can be achieved. If the Corn is settled, a Worker is no longer as useful interestingly enough.

The mod I'm using is close enough to vanilla that it doesn't change this first turn decision much, just pretend it's regular Civ.

 

[sampsa]

Screenshots are easy to attach from "Upload a File"

Spoiler :

Lake is not 3, it's 2. 1W seems best no doubt, on corn is a bit faster start but there is no way to know if you can use it to your advantage. Long term it's much weaker. With these starting techs it feels just very unnecessary, as does settler first.

 

[shakabrade]

@omnimirage

While sometimes people tend to care about long term too much, here you are going too much into the short term. With an early luxury which needs BW to be improved, you really want a worker, and you also need a worker to chop 'em trees. And with BW, food and some happiness, you really should use slavery. Also, with extra food and an early luxury, you can do nice 5 to 3 and 6 to 3 whips. Without food you'll not be able to do that. If you try to play out to T50, you should see that the approach I proposed to you would yield much much more hammers. Please note that the lake without the lighthouse is only 2 food, but it would still change nothing for this analysis.

 

[omnimirage]

Thanks for the insight everyone!

I'd like to ask a follow up question unrelated to original question figured it'd be better asking here than making new post.

I'm struggling to evaluate when it's better to chop out certain buildings, or better to wait until maximum overflow for two population has been reached. Here, in this situation, I can whip out a Lighthouse now, resulting in extra food from fish, or, I can wait until maximum overflow, resulting in more value being gained from being at population 4 for more turns.

I gather the pay offs for whipping out fast Granaries is worthwhile, but what about for a Lighthouse like in this situation?

 

[Fippy]

LH has no value if you already sit at 14t of whip penalty.
Shouldn't be built over a library, and ofc never be whipped at this point.
Those priest specialists are very dubious, so is basically everything in this screenie and you would have to tell us what you are doing or planning

 

[omnimirage]

Yeah, I may have made some mistakes in prior turns(if I did I could load a save game, was pretty tired when playing this last night), I'm not sure if building the Barracks was worthwhile at the time, I basically didn't have a Horse connected up yet(so couldn't build War Chariot), and didn't see much use for building a Settler(no where else to expand) or Worker(only two cities without much more required to work on) so I built Barracks since I'm playing on going for a War Chariot spam attack. Unsure if the Obelisk was worth building, when I built Obelisk I didn't have writing I managed to trade for that, but I figured I should try and get a specialist out, Obelisk costs a lot less hammers than Library meaning I'll get more War Chariots out this way, and then I can bulb Theology and maybe find Christianity(there's no nearby religions it seems, Theocracy would help war mongering, and I can use Theology to trade for things). I also wasn't sure if Lighthouse was worth building or if I should start spamming War Chariots. I struggle at evaluating when to build these types of buildings, to provide long term value, or when it's better to simply mass military units. I want to conquer my neighbours whilst they don't appear to have metals and stuck on Archers.

Maybe I needed to build a Galley instead of a Lighthouse? I don't usually go for Fishing as I seem to then need to build a navy to defend my fishing improvements. Since I now have a fishing improvement, maybe I need to build Galley first? It's dubious because I'm taking a long time to start spamming those War Chariots.

 

[krikav]

If you want to build war chariots you should build war chariots, work mines and chop the forests down.
Just looking at the screenshot it seems like you are all over the place doing abit of everything and not getting anything done.

 

[omnimirage]

Indeed. Should I simply whip a galley out when I see a barbarian galley, when building a worker boat early game like this, or might it be better to simply let barbarian galleys pillage the improved fish? I usually avoid Fishing due to this dilemma.

EDIT:

To add more information,

I usually don't build Worker Boats before Metal Casting, due to Galleys being expensive and only have a 50% chance of beating barbarian galleys that try to pillage improved seafood tiles. I usually feel that the pay off simply isn't worthwhile as hammers are spare early game and needed to fight land wars.

This game, it was suggested that I research fishing and chop out a worker boat, which I did, and now I find myself in this dilemma that I'm not sure how to navigate: do I now let the barbarian galley pillage the food, or since I have now built that worker boat, do I now need to rush out two galleys(two in case the first one loses the 50% chance in battle) to defend the improvement?

Because of this, I wonder, was it worth researching Fishing and chopping a Worker Boat to begin with?

I'd appreciate if anyone could provide their thoughts and insights to this part of the game.

 

[WLanky13]

only have a 50% chance of beating barbarian galleys

When defending, it's actually more like 63% chance of victory, because your galley gets a 10% defensive bonus for being on coast. Fogbusting can also be important for barb galley defense.

It is always a good idea to build workboats for seafood. If a barb galley appears, whip a galley and put a few hammers into another galley, so if the first one loses, you can whip another one easily.

 

[coanda]

If you settle on the corn, it's presumably to get that crucial first worker out 3 turns faster. What are you going to do here with the worker finishing on turn 12, that is so high-value it's worth giving up a corn tile to do it?

 

[Snowygerry]

Interesting - seems original city placement is not the problem here, more the general strategic situation and possibly the placement of your second city - you have three close neighbours and no army I can see, are they up North ?

The purple city to the far NW seems to be a capital too, presumably you're on a small continent...

Who are your neighbours, are they at war ?