What's the best new UU?

[Thedrin]

TheLastOne36:
what's so good about the HRE uu?

The landsknecht doesn't give any huge advantage that makes the HRE unstoppable but think of the unique advantage given to the Khmer's balista elephant:

For field duties crossbows and pikemen are good units to have but due to the paper-rock-scissors combat system they can easily find themselves facing units that they aren't designed to deal. The landsknecht is an all-in-one unit. When it attacks it's less likely to fall foul of the combat system's choice of defender (though it's still weak against the defensive crossbows).

It's not the most powerful new unique unit - that's the [potentially overpowered] cataphract - but it's a very nice unit to have.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

The cataphract will also (if you have any sense) be always built in a barracks/stable city, therefore it gets 2 promotions as standard. So just by making it combat 2 as standard, it gets a base 14.4 strength. This is quite a jump up from the knights modified 12 str, built in the same way.

 

[DarkSchneider]

The cataphract will also (if you have any sense) be always built in a barracks/stable city, therefore it gets 2 promotions as standard. So just by making it combat 2 as standard, it gets a base 14.4 strength. This is quite a jump up from the knights modified 12 str, built in the same way.

Yes, the Cataphract is easily the best new UU. People voting for the HRE UU just weren't thinking. The Cataphract has no real counter until the rilfeman, the counter for the HRE UU is available before the HRE UU itself. The only reason that the Cataphract isn't totally unbalanced, is that you can't give it the city-raider promotion. Another thing to consider, in the pikeman/Cataphract wars, is that the promotions given to a unit only apply to it's base attack.

So: A cataphract with no promotions vs Landsket/pikeman with no-promotions = 12 vs 12.
A cataphract with combat 3 vs Landsket or Pikeman with combat 3 = 15.6 vs 13.8

The cataphract, is pretty much the same deal as the old redcoats and cossacks pre nerf, and it comes earlier. Also note that in BTS, the Cavalry/Cossacks get pushed back further in the tech tree.

 

[Thedrin]

DarkSchneider:
Yes, the Cataphract is easily the most powerful new UU. People voting for the HRE UU just used other criteria.

Fixed.

I've no doubt that the cataphract is the most powerful new unique unit but I voted for the landsknecht and don't regret doing so.

 

[aelf]

Yeah, I can't believe most people don't think Vulture is the best new UU. It gets the best of the axeman and the swordsman. Imagine axe rushing with that. You'll probably need that against the Better AI.

 

[Kietharr]

Carrack, naval invasions can start at optics now!

 

[TheLastOne36]

i still don't see anything good bout the HRE uu.

 

[lionheart]

I've always been a big fan of maps with large areas of water, so the UU I'm most looking forward to is the Eastindiaman.. Ofcourse me being Dutch has nothing to do with that whatsoever..

But a Galleon with +2 movement points, +1 cargo hold and the ability to enter enemy territory? Wow!

Here's what it looks like by the way: (If you don't want to be spoiled, look away now!)

Definitely my new favorite unit!

 

[dutchking]

I say the HRE one, it's very powerful...

 

[Nicopol]

dont think the naval uus are too good because you need the right map AND you win wars on the land.

 

[vale]

People have been clamoring for a UU axeman forever, and now that we have an awesome one (Vulture), it is as if it is being ignored. The Cataphract is nice but not at the level that I believe the Vulture will prove itself to be. The HRE UU is totally lame. It is a great stack protector, but it is useless for taking cities.

 

[LlamaCat]

how do we know the bonuses of these UUs? I didn't see them on the official site

 

[bluedevil99]

None of them look as good as Praets, War Chariots, Immortals, or Quechas, though Vultures are darn close. A couple of them are really interesting...

I like early rushes so of course I can't wait to try out the early melee units. Holkyans would be better than quechas except for the increased hammer cost. Dog solidiers are kind of like Jaguars--they're neat in theory, but too often you HAVE the resource and find yourself wishing for the regular unit.

I can also see Carracks being almost game-breaking on certain water maps (e.g., Archipalego with medium or high sea level), where getting to the best island city sites is so critical.

I'm pretty disappointed with the Ballista Elephant, and don't get why people think the Landsknecht is that great... I can see myself building a few more of them than I usually build Pikemen, but by the time Engineering pops, I ideally have a stack of macemen ready to rock and just want to crank out trebs.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Slightly off topic but for the Nat Americans, to me there best unit will be the basic archer, in the hands of the ai that is. Barracks is +3 xp, totem pole replaces monument and gives another +3xp to archers AND they are protective, which gives CGIII/Drill I (or Drill III/CG I) archers, without even being in a fight ! And of course with the ai protective means v early walls. In combo with the Dog Soldier (4 str but 100% vs melee) they will be the new early "untouchables".

A city garrison 3 / drill 1 archer is pretty much the ultimate early defender, I'm just wondering where all those walled cities were that the Sioux and Apaches built

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I'm just wondering where all those walled cities were that the Sioux and Apaches built

I made a similar comment the other day. It's definitely ironic that people who never had cities would be the best city defenders. And those few Native American tribes that did have very large settlements certainly didn't have large stone walls around them.

But this is ultimately the problem you have when you merge a bunch of different peoples together. The Sioux by themselves should be good at rushing and relatively weak on defense. Their UU should be a horse unit. But the Iroquois on the other hand would be totally different in terms of what their play style should be. The Pueblo Indians would have yet again another style.

So they gave them a stereotypical Native American structure: the totem pole, and they gave it a bonus to a stereotypical, generic Native American weapon, the bow and arrow. The result is unbelievable city defenders in the ancient era. I'm not complaining that they did this, I'm just saying it's a weird picture.

I have to say though that if I find myself on a continent were I start out in the corner and Sitting Bull is blocking my path to further expansion... I don't even know what I'd do

 

[aelf]

None of them look as good as Praets, War Chariots, Immortals, or Quechas, though Vultures are darn close. A couple of them are really interesting...

Vultures are darn close? Vultures are right there among them, with only Praetorians having a good case of being clearly better. Unless you want to talk about MP, in which case things change for all of them.

 

[bluedevil99]

Vultures are darn close? Vultures are right there among them, with only Praetorians having a good case of being clearly better. Unless you want to talk about MP, in which case things change for all of them.

Oh I'll put Vultures right there with Praets, but on Prince and below I think Immortals and War Chariots are better than Praets, as they make it almost trivially easy to take out multiple AIs in the BCs and be set for the rest of the game. I'm finding Praets relatively more valuable on Monarch (and a couple of stabs at Emperor, one of which I won due to an unbelievably lucky start), where increased maintenance costs and lower happy caps limit the returns to super-early rushes (of course it may just be that I haven't fully adapted to the higher difficulties yet).

Anyway, Vultures are definitely in the top four, particularly after the Warlords Redcoat-Cossack nerf. In fact, they might end up being the best--early axemen rushes can be game-breakers even WITHOUT a UU...

 

[Pikkis]

It's hard to choice between Holkan (magnificent for early rushes due to its fs-immunity), Landsknecht (the best Melee of Medieval era, I'd say) and Oromo Warrior, but I say the last is the best because it gets Drill IV (rumors say Drills are available to Gunpowder Units now) with only 5XP and with 5 more it gets also Formation (opened by Drill II), and with those it would have immunity to fs, 4-7fs, +35% vs. Mounted Units and -60% collateral damage. While 9*1,35=12,15 it could beat even Cataphract w/ Flanking II (which is with that immune to fs). And with all this, rumors say that Grenadiers now come later and I think Cuirassier won't be so must as Cavalry has been this far.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Formation II ?
Are they adding new promotions (apart from air promotions) ?

 

[gettingfat]

In a smaller size map Holkan and Vulture, and perhaps dog fighter, can be very overpowering. Holkan is particularly scary. combined with the great Fin/Exp trait combo a Mayan player only needs to rush his closest neighbour, get some good city spots and then cottage-spam to death. Vulture is great for SP games (when AI tend to build archers rather than axes).