civverguy
Emperor
This is my first Monarch game and I'm playing as the Maya. I have conquered the Spanish and Romans and have controlled half of my continent and I am 200 points ahead of the second place Incas. What is the best way to win this game?
Whats the best way to win this game?
- Thread starter civverguy
- Start date
civverguy
Emperor
Some screenshots.
My Empire
Greece and Ottomans
Other Continent
My Empire
Greece and Ottomans
Other Continent
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
I'm not ignoring you here, civverguy! I actually did take a look at your .sav file yesterday, came up with some suggestions, hit "enter" to see how they might work, and what happened on the interturn made me keep my mouth shut. 
I'm not much of a warmonger, so others may have much better ideas. I'll only say that I noticed the Ottomans have no saltpeter, so they can't make Sipahi's. The only source of salt near them is one tile into Greek territory (near Delphi), so if you conquered the Greeks first, you'd want to be sure that tile didn't suddenly belong to the Ottomans (claim or pillage it first).
The Greeks don't yet have Metallurgy and you do, but you're researching Physics in 9 (doesn't look like you have any actual turns invested in it). You might want to switch to Military Tradition, upgrade your knights, change your musket builds to knights (which will become cavs after the tech comes in), and go after the Greeks before they have cavs.
There were some other possibilities but, as I said, the IT changed my mind. I'm sure other players will have different suggestions. Good luck!
I'm not much of a warmonger, so others may have much better ideas. I'll only say that I noticed the Ottomans have no saltpeter, so they can't make Sipahi's. The only source of salt near them is one tile into Greek territory (near Delphi), so if you conquered the Greeks first, you'd want to be sure that tile didn't suddenly belong to the Ottomans (claim or pillage it first).
The Greeks don't yet have Metallurgy and you do, but you're researching Physics in 9 (doesn't look like you have any actual turns invested in it). You might want to switch to Military Tradition, upgrade your knights, change your musket builds to knights (which will become cavs after the tech comes in), and go after the Greeks before they have cavs.
There were some other possibilities but, as I said, the IT changed my mind. I'm sure other players will have different suggestions. Good luck!
Synobun
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2006
- Messages
- 24,884
Well, you've got a pretty good empire, here is what I can suggest.
Change your research to Military Tradition
Start building knights in the cities closest to Ottomans and Greece
Once you have the cavalry, upgrade all your knights to cavs.
Make a quick run to the gunpowder, making sure the Ottomans cannot get it. If Greece/Ottomans declare war, fight back and hold your ground, try not to take their cities yet. Once you have a good sized military force from within your territory, send your army through the south end of Greece, since most of their troops will be trying to get you away from their saltpeter. The Ottomans will probably try to make a quick break for either your cities on the north borders, or try to get that resource, make sure you have a lot of cavalry on that resource. Once you have built a strong connection between the gunpowder, and made sure Greece and the Ottomans are under control, seek out to go to the Industrial Age, once you get there, get Medicine, Steam Power, and Nationalism as soon as you can, it'll play a big role in your game.
Hope that helps... a bit.
Change your research to Military Tradition
Start building knights in the cities closest to Ottomans and Greece
Once you have the cavalry, upgrade all your knights to cavs.
Make a quick run to the gunpowder, making sure the Ottomans cannot get it. If Greece/Ottomans declare war, fight back and hold your ground, try not to take their cities yet. Once you have a good sized military force from within your territory, send your army through the south end of Greece, since most of their troops will be trying to get you away from their saltpeter. The Ottomans will probably try to make a quick break for either your cities on the north borders, or try to get that resource, make sure you have a lot of cavalry on that resource. Once you have built a strong connection between the gunpowder, and made sure Greece and the Ottomans are under control, seek out to go to the Industrial Age, once you get there, get Medicine, Steam Power, and Nationalism as soon as you can, it'll play a big role in your game.
Hope that helps... a bit.
MAS
Deity
And here is an other tip:
Those cities building cathedral's colosseums, and libraries... Switch all of em to building workers. And start improving your land.
Those cities building cathedral's colosseums, and libraries... Switch all of em to building workers. And start improving your land.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
It does seem like you should continue with the military options. You are in monarchy, so the huge army isn't a problem.
If you want to go military, cut out the cathedrals. Or rather, cut them out anyway - you don't need them for happiness and they are expensive. Markets are better for happiness.
With sun-tzu's and leo's, the build knights and upgrade to cavs is a great idea. switching *everything* to knights may make sense, though you will lose a bunch of shields from a couple of places. It may make sense to switch cathedrals that are almost done to wonders.
You need more workers. A lot more. You have a lot of completely unimproved tiles in your core, which is really hurting your ability to produce units/improvments.
If you want to go military, cut out the cathedrals. Or rather, cut them out anyway - you don't need them for happiness and they are expensive. Markets are better for happiness.
With sun-tzu's and leo's, the build knights and upgrade to cavs is a great idea. switching *everything* to knights may make sense, though you will lose a bunch of shields from a couple of places. It may make sense to switch cathedrals that are almost done to wonders.
You need more workers. A lot more. You have a lot of completely unimproved tiles in your core, which is really hurting your ability to produce units/improvments.
civverguy
Emperor
Thanks,
I get careless when it comes to city managing because I have a lot of cities. If I start a war, should I escort my attacking cavalry with musketmen or should I attack with cavalry without escort and defend my captured city with muskets later?
I get careless when it comes to city managing because I have a lot of cities. If I start a war, should I escort my attacking cavalry with musketmen or should I attack with cavalry without escort and defend my captured city with muskets later?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
What I tend to do is this:
If I can reach a city on the first turn, I attack it, one cav at a time until i take it, then move muskets in. If I can reach it with artillery, i bombard it too.
If I can't, then I move the cav's in 1 tile at a time under cover of muskets/rifles.. whatever I have... until I am 2 tiles from the target.
After I take the city, I rail to it (assuming I have rails) with the workers.
If I can reach a city on the first turn, I attack it, one cav at a time until i take it, then move muskets in. If I can reach it with artillery, i bombard it too.
If I can't, then I move the cav's in 1 tile at a time under cover of muskets/rifles.. whatever I have... until I am 2 tiles from the target.
After I take the city, I rail to it (assuming I have rails) with the workers.
MAS
Deity
I would have almost no defensive units at all, anywhere, at this stage of the game, but then, I would have been in a different situation than you are at this stage of the game, so that doesn't count...
For this scenario:
Because some of your enemies already have cavs, I would suggest you first enter the land of this AI with as stack of defensive units, and let them waste their offensive power on this stack. Once the AI is "gassed out" (has used up all offensive power on an aggressive defensive strike) you can enter with your offensive force, and not worry to much anymore about it being attacked.
Make sure you keep them in stacks.
The beauty of cavs is that it can attack and conquer cities 2 tiles away from the border. Once the city is conquered, you can make use of the enemy road network to move your defenders around.
So yeah, first conquer the city, then enter with your slow moving defenders.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
actually, what I would do if the enemy has cavs is put declare war and, unless I knew where the cavs were and could pick them all off myself, let them come at me. that way, I can wipe out most of the threat to my cavs early.
something good you can do is leave a city at least 4 tiles away from the border empty and garrison the ones closer to the border - the AI should go after the empty city and you can take them down easily, and get your injured cavs back to interior cities with barracks to heal.
Especially if the other civ hasn't had much war and may have a pretty good army.
something good you can do is leave a city at least 4 tiles away from the border empty and garrison the ones closer to the border - the AI should go after the empty city and you can take them down easily, and get your injured cavs back to interior cities with barracks to heal.
Especially if the other civ hasn't had much war and may have a pretty good army.
civverguy
Emperor
How many units should I use against the AI. Threre are a lot of troops in Athens.
Synobun
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2006
- Messages
- 24,884
Take as many as you can, 15 atleast.
I was not able to look at this until now, but here is what I think I would do from the save you posted.
Pre:
Move units out the Greek land and will disband them.
Rename X... Town-0001 and switch Lib to Harbor, it is making 1 beaker, no need for a lib
right now. It shoul dnot have gotten a temple either. Disband a warrior there and the spear
next turn. Wake up the worker. How can you have a worker sleeping with so much to do?
Bona[ak renamed Town-0002 and switch uni to market. With a lib it only makes 7 beakers. A
uni is not an hideous pick, but I would prefer to hav ebeen making knights here. The market
is not needed right now, but can be useful soon.
When the RoP expires with the Vikes I will demand the remove the units.
Rename Dz to Town-0003. switch lib to market and disband the 3/3 pike. I would never have
build any non vets after the first few in the AA, unless this was a special game, such as
AW.
Rename Kam.. to Town-0004. Switch to a knight. The uni is ok, but we need attackers and we
need workers. Disband 2 spears and upgrade treb.
Rename Pal to 0005 and disband warrior.
Rename Tikal to Town-0006 and switch to market.
Rename Cal to Town-0007 and switch uni to market.
Send JT from chit to 0006 to disband.
Rename Yax to 0007 and switch to market.
Disband 3/3 pike.
Upgrade 4/4 pike.
Rename Laz to 0008. Switch cath to market, losing 38 shields. Move pop to hil from fp as we
have too much food anyway and gain 3 shields.
Rename Copan to 0009. Switch to Knight.
Rename Coba to 0010 and switch to market.
Rename Quir to 0011 and switch to market. Never build Col, unless goign for culture win and
why would you do that?
Rename Uax and switch to worker.
Rename Peid to 0016 and switch to market.
Rename Cue to 0017 and switch to temple. Disband warriror.
rename Mayapan and sowtch to settler.
Rename Ux and switch to worker.
Rename Kabah and to worker.
Disband a JT and an MDI, upgrade a treb and a pike.
Rome rename and switch to market.
Rename Neo and disband a pike.
Rename Ek Bal and switch to worker, lost shields.
Rename Barcel and switch to temple and rush it for 48 gold.
Mainly becasue I could not bare to spent so many shields for the worker.
Rename Madrid and switch/rush temple.
switch Rav to LB and will gift to someone or abandon.
Found more workers forted, while roads to next town need to be laid.
Send warrior back in Otto land. While not get those ivory?
Rename Murica and switch to walls.
Switch from Phys to MT.
dial up the Greeks and redo peace with no RoP.
I only renamed the town as the names are horrific as they stand and I find them hard to remeber.
Start to move workers away from Greek areas and move troops that way.
Pre:
Move units out the Greek land and will disband them.
Rename X... Town-0001 and switch Lib to Harbor, it is making 1 beaker, no need for a lib
right now. It shoul dnot have gotten a temple either. Disband a warrior there and the spear
next turn. Wake up the worker. How can you have a worker sleeping with so much to do?
Bona[ak renamed Town-0002 and switch uni to market. With a lib it only makes 7 beakers. A
uni is not an hideous pick, but I would prefer to hav ebeen making knights here. The market
is not needed right now, but can be useful soon.
When the RoP expires with the Vikes I will demand the remove the units.
Rename Dz to Town-0003. switch lib to market and disband the 3/3 pike. I would never have
build any non vets after the first few in the AA, unless this was a special game, such as
AW.
Rename Kam.. to Town-0004. Switch to a knight. The uni is ok, but we need attackers and we
need workers. Disband 2 spears and upgrade treb.
Rename Pal to 0005 and disband warrior.
Rename Tikal to Town-0006 and switch to market.
Rename Cal to Town-0007 and switch uni to market.
Send JT from chit to 0006 to disband.
Rename Yax to 0007 and switch to market.
Disband 3/3 pike.
Upgrade 4/4 pike.
Rename Laz to 0008. Switch cath to market, losing 38 shields. Move pop to hil from fp as we
have too much food anyway and gain 3 shields.
Rename Copan to 0009. Switch to Knight.
Rename Coba to 0010 and switch to market.
Rename Quir to 0011 and switch to market. Never build Col, unless goign for culture win and
why would you do that?
Rename Uax and switch to worker.
Rename Peid to 0016 and switch to market.
Rename Cue to 0017 and switch to temple. Disband warriror.
rename Mayapan and sowtch to settler.
Rename Ux and switch to worker.
Rename Kabah and to worker.
Disband a JT and an MDI, upgrade a treb and a pike.
Rome rename and switch to market.
Rename Neo and disband a pike.
Rename Ek Bal and switch to worker, lost shields.
Rename Barcel and switch to temple and rush it for 48 gold.
Mainly becasue I could not bare to spent so many shields for the worker.
Rename Madrid and switch/rush temple.
switch Rav to LB and will gift to someone or abandon.
Found more workers forted, while roads to next town need to be laid.
Send warrior back in Otto land. While not get those ivory?
Rename Murica and switch to walls.
Switch from Phys to MT.
dial up the Greeks and redo peace with no RoP.
I only renamed the town as the names are horrific as they stand and I find them hard to remeber.
Start to move workers away from Greek areas and move troops that way.
You do not have to wait for lots of troops at this level.
1130AD:
Upgrade a few units and disband a few. Stopped a few workers task and put them on something useful.
1230AD:
Decalre on Greece and kill 3 hops, knight and mdi, raze a town.
Trade Chem to Inca for PP and some gold.
All knights are cavs, execprt the lone elite.
Trade MT to Ossam for Phys+Nav and 23gpt.
Set research to 90% at -48gpt (3 turns) on econ.
Abandon town-0018.
IBT:
Very nasty rng. knigt kills musket in town and it promotes. Then LB goes redline and then it kills 4/4 cav. Not nice, both could have been wins.
1240AD:
cav kills archer.
cav kill the knight and it goes elite.
IBT:
several attackers, lose another musket to a knight..
1250AD:
cav kills that knight.
cav kills knight.
cav kills horse after getting redlined and then promotes.
cav redlined on hop and lb finishs the hop.
5 cavs raze a Greek town for 2 slaves.
IBT:
Another less than great rng. Cav kills knight and goes elite.
LB is killed by long bow after it was redlined.
1255AD:
The game is won, got a SGL for Econ and rushed Smiths.
I am not used to SGL's as I tend to play AW or Sid and do not get them.
Drop research to 70 for ToG in 8, small surplus.
Kill lb and archer.
We were so short handed for workers and attackers, the war is going to be slow and painful.
I trade Econ to Ossman for alliance on Greeks.
Do same with China, just to give them econ without it being free. Also they are the ones I gifted Rav to and it will be attacked by the Greeks, drawing off a few units for a moment.
I trade econ to all for whatever I can get, not much.
IBT:
finally a musket does its job as a crusader dies smoothly. Stack of 14 crusaders turns back to presumedly deal with the Ottoman forces. That was the idea.
It will be easier now with the extra gold from Smiths.
1260AD:
Trade Met and Phy to Inca for Demo + 12g.
Vikes had asked for Rop and Ally on Inca, but I refused.
I now trade MT to Inca for wines and map and their last 10g.
I am not sure that I like this one, but I sell dyes to Ottoman for 14gpt.
They are up Mag right now and the war and 14 gold may slow them a bit. They will get a free tech soon.
I am not sure if they are doing ToG or Free Art.
IBT:
nada
1270AD:
4 cavs attack and capture Thessalonica, losing one cav.
Rename to town-0018 to replace the abandoned one.
5/5 kills musket at Pharsalos, 2 4/4 cavs die there.
Two 5/5 cavs kills hops there.
5/5 retreats from musket, oh the lack of cannons.
4/4 raze city for 4 slaves.
5/5 kills the musket.
Greeks are in big trouble, sure would like to see an MGL.
Raise research to 90% to get ToG in 3 and switch capitol to cath as a prebuild for Newtons.
1280AD:
Nothing coming, send 7 cavs towards Argos for next turn. Will see if they will come out for them.
1130AD:
Upgrade a few units and disband a few. Stopped a few workers task and put them on something useful.
1230AD:
Decalre on Greece and kill 3 hops, knight and mdi, raze a town.
Trade Chem to Inca for PP and some gold.
All knights are cavs, execprt the lone elite.
Trade MT to Ossam for Phys+Nav and 23gpt.
Set research to 90% at -48gpt (3 turns) on econ.
Abandon town-0018.
IBT:
Very nasty rng. knigt kills musket in town and it promotes. Then LB goes redline and then it kills 4/4 cav. Not nice, both could have been wins.
1240AD:
cav kills archer.
cav kill the knight and it goes elite.
IBT:
several attackers, lose another musket to a knight..
1250AD:
cav kills that knight.
cav kills knight.
cav kills horse after getting redlined and then promotes.
cav redlined on hop and lb finishs the hop.
5 cavs raze a Greek town for 2 slaves.
IBT:
Another less than great rng. Cav kills knight and goes elite.
LB is killed by long bow after it was redlined.
1255AD:
The game is won, got a SGL for Econ and rushed Smiths.
I am not used to SGL's as I tend to play AW or Sid and do not get them.
Drop research to 70 for ToG in 8, small surplus.
Kill lb and archer.
We were so short handed for workers and attackers, the war is going to be slow and painful.
I trade Econ to Ossman for alliance on Greeks.
Do same with China, just to give them econ without it being free. Also they are the ones I gifted Rav to and it will be attacked by the Greeks, drawing off a few units for a moment.
I trade econ to all for whatever I can get, not much.
IBT:
finally a musket does its job as a crusader dies smoothly. Stack of 14 crusaders turns back to presumedly deal with the Ottoman forces. That was the idea.
It will be easier now with the extra gold from Smiths.
1260AD:
Trade Met and Phy to Inca for Demo + 12g.
Vikes had asked for Rop and Ally on Inca, but I refused.
I now trade MT to Inca for wines and map and their last 10g.
I am not sure that I like this one, but I sell dyes to Ottoman for 14gpt.
They are up Mag right now and the war and 14 gold may slow them a bit. They will get a free tech soon.
I am not sure if they are doing ToG or Free Art.
IBT:
nada
1270AD:
4 cavs attack and capture Thessalonica, losing one cav.
Rename to town-0018 to replace the abandoned one.
5/5 kills musket at Pharsalos, 2 4/4 cavs die there.
Two 5/5 cavs kills hops there.
5/5 retreats from musket, oh the lack of cannons.
4/4 raze city for 4 slaves.
5/5 kills the musket.
Greeks are in big trouble, sure would like to see an MGL.
Raise research to 90% to get ToG in 3 and switch capitol to cath as a prebuild for Newtons.
1280AD:
Nothing coming, send 7 cavs towards Argos for next turn. Will see if they will come out for them.
1290AD:
Two 5/5 cavs kill hops and raze anpther town for 2 slaves. I need some settlers.
4/4 kills lb.
1295AD:
Greece is really gased as they do not even attack the damaged cav.
5/5 kills musket. 4/4 dies. 5/5 kills hop and gets a leader.
4/4 kills hop and captures Herakleia.
Form army and put 2 cavs in it. Sad movies for Alexander. Turn out the lights, the party is over.
1300AD:
Rename Herak to Town-0029.
capture Seville losing 1 cav and rename to Town-0030.
Bite the bullet and trade ToG to Ottoman for Ivory, WorlD Map, Mag and 55gpt. It lets them have a shot at Newtons and puts them in the next age for the free tech. They draw Steam.
Not bad for me as it lower the price for me and makes them research Nat.
I go ahead, becasue if they do beat me to Newtons, I would just capture it later anyway.
IBT:
Yet another LB kills a cav.
1315AD:
Capture Ephesus and rename Town-0031.
Capture Salamanca losing 2 cavs. Rename Town-0032.
Cav-1 kills musket at Athens.
Greeks down to 3 cities. Otto did get Rav after the Greeks took it from china, so they have not done real well for themselves.
1320AD:
Cav-1 kills another musket in Athens.
Cav-1 kills 2 muskets in Athens.
1340AD:
Trade Mag to Inca for Fre Art and some junk.
1345AD:
Get another leader.
1350AD:
Form Cav-2 add 2 units.
Capture Thermopylae.
Greeks are down to Athens now.
Newtons was done back a turn or 3 and I am now doing MA and HE as well as Shakes. Shakes would likely be a pre, but who knows.
Anyway Civverguy, you can see how weak the AI is at this level. It took few units to start hurting them.
You now have two armies and should soon start some ships to get ready for the other land.
Two 5/5 cavs kill hops and raze anpther town for 2 slaves. I need some settlers.
4/4 kills lb.
1295AD:
Greece is really gased as they do not even attack the damaged cav.
5/5 kills musket. 4/4 dies. 5/5 kills hop and gets a leader.
4/4 kills hop and captures Herakleia.
Form army and put 2 cavs in it. Sad movies for Alexander. Turn out the lights, the party is over.
1300AD:
Rename Herak to Town-0029.
capture Seville losing 1 cav and rename to Town-0030.
Bite the bullet and trade ToG to Ottoman for Ivory, WorlD Map, Mag and 55gpt. It lets them have a shot at Newtons and puts them in the next age for the free tech. They draw Steam.
Not bad for me as it lower the price for me and makes them research Nat.
I go ahead, becasue if they do beat me to Newtons, I would just capture it later anyway.
IBT:
Yet another LB kills a cav.
1315AD:
Capture Ephesus and rename Town-0031.
Capture Salamanca losing 2 cavs. Rename Town-0032.
Cav-1 kills musket at Athens.
Greeks down to 3 cities. Otto did get Rav after the Greeks took it from china, so they have not done real well for themselves.
1320AD:
Cav-1 kills another musket in Athens.
Cav-1 kills 2 muskets in Athens.
1340AD:
Trade Mag to Inca for Fre Art and some junk.
1345AD:
Get another leader.
1350AD:
Form Cav-2 add 2 units.
Capture Thermopylae.
Greeks are down to Athens now.
Newtons was done back a turn or 3 and I am now doing MA and HE as well as Shakes. Shakes would likely be a pre, but who knows.
Anyway Civverguy, you can see how weak the AI is at this level. It took few units to start hurting them.
You now have two armies and should soon start some ships to get ready for the other land.
civverguy
Emperor
Thanks. How do you break deals with another civ?
I did not break andy deals, I only ended those that had already expired. You use F4 and select active. This brings them up and you can select one or more and then offer what ever you want.
Here is the save in case you want to look at things.
Now look at some of the cities after going around and making them more effective. Note Town-32 now with 9 scientist. Several towns now using CE's to get builds up sooner.
Dropped research down a few clicks with no change in the breakthrough. I elected to not spend the time early in the game to just accent the impact of merely changing tactics.
Now you can see how much more could have been done with some empire management. More yet could have been done with an all out warmongger style, but I figured this was not going to be something that most will want to do.
Dropped research down a few clicks with no change in the breakthrough. I elected to not spend the time early in the game to just accent the impact of merely changing tactics.
Now you can see how much more could have been done with some empire management. More yet could have been done with an all out warmongger style, but I figured this was not going to be something that most will want to do.
