What's the point of Empyrean?

Meh... if it were available to every caster as a common spell, the AI would just cast it all the time making blind/charm completely useless. If it were linked to a single mana type, then most AI just wouldn't use it or wouldn't have it anyway.

[edit] I take it back, if the AI knew how to use magic more effectively and actually had casters with the stack, then it would be not bad since you just need to hope the charm hits the caster or the caster will clear it off of everyone else.
 
I was thinking it might be appropriate to make that an effect of the Heal spell, which would be limited to High Priests and Grigori Medics. It might be good to make it not always work too.
 
Well i can say that the overcouncil is powerful.

There was me and ONE other member (basium). Basium wasnt my ally.

I pretty much got every single vote my way. Including when basium would be forced to attack me with his ally (Light elves). I just said "no" every time the vote came up. With a island to myself - i was virtually untouchable. The evils warred among themselves (of which there were 5.) So i could guarantee sending off Basium and buddy to war with any baddy who wanted to go at me - and virtually nullify any attacks made BY he and his ally to me.

It's a powerful tool.

But - as for the religion itself (I was runes, not Emp) i'm unsure of it's worth.
-Qes
 
Well i can say that the overcouncil is powerful.

There was me and ONE other member (basium). Basium wasnt my ally.

I pretty much got every single vote my way. Including when basium would be forced to attack me with his ally (Light elves). I just said "no" every time the vote came up. With a island to myself - i was virtually untouchable. The evils warred among themselves (of which there were 5.) So i could guarantee sending off Basium and buddy to war with any baddy who wanted to go at me - and virtually nullify any attacks made BY he and his ally to me.

It's a powerful tool.

I would say that it's conditionally powerful. Very conditionally.

But - as for the religion itself (I was runes, not Emp) i'm unsure of it's worth.
-Qes

Well, as others have said, and I'm pretty much in agreement at the moment,l Empyrean is only worth Chalid and the Ratha. Go with Empyrean (supposedly the religion of wisdom and enlightenment) if you want to kick some serious butt.
 
So . . . Empy is a good warmonger religion? I think that's not its purpose. I'd like to see more ancillary benefits to it. I very much like that the holy city reveals invisible units inside your borders. I think that's great and very much in tune with the theme. But I think that the priests should mostly have spells that help your cities.

BTW, the Empy temple is a great asset to any builder.

Everyone wants the Empy holy city; I only played as Empy religion once, after reading a strategy thread on the Malakim. Dominating the Overcouncil was nice, with three votes for myself and more as I acquired vassals.
 
If I had to pick between Rathas and Chalid I'd pick the Rathas. You can only have 1 Chalid; against a split army he doesn't look so great and god help you if you thought you could get away with just building a small conventional army to kill things Chalid turned into easy pickings.

Rathas can turn an attempt by all my neighbors to dogpile me into a sad joke. Their armies just sit there and cost maintenance while I build a counterattack force at my leisure. They work great together though, Chalid softens up one of the paralyzed stacks and my free army farms it for experience.

But yeah, Chalid's great for offensive wars, but sometimes you get the fight taken to you, then Rathas save your ass against armies that could go around Chalid and take a few cities of yours.

I have to agree with Monkeyfinger. Ratha rock my world and I can't imagine playing a large map without them. Stopping an army dead for two turns and taking my time decimating them with three or four mobility I rathas helps keep my army maintenance down since I don't have to spam. Chalid's extra vote on the Overcouncil REALLY helped my last game because two of the three remaining civs in my Pangaea game were good, meaning I was able to force Einon into a war against his will, and it cost me nothing. Once he lost a city to Amelchiar (or whatever his name is) I had an ally for the rest of the game, distracting the elves so I could focus on the Altar victory.
 
Wow, deep thread necro.

I find Rathas less useful now than in the past. did something change with the resistability of Blinding Light? It seems to get resisted about 4 out of 5 times for me, so I need a big stack of Rathas to blind an enemy stack.

It's a lot later in the tech tree, but now I much prefer Druids that have been upgraded from Vicars. Not only do they have Crown of Brilliance, which is miles better than most archmage spells, but they also have entangle, which almost never gets resisted. In terms of immobilizing an enemy, one Empy Druid = about 10 Rathas for me.
 
Ratha's are AI breaking Chariots that cost 50% more. Chalid is a civ breaking hero that wins games by itself.

The real point with Chalid, is that you don't need to build the same size army. Yes, if you build one that is too small, you will likely eventually lose him. But the army that he does require is minuscule compared to a normal army. If you can get the guild of the nine, this is more apparent because the rest of your empire can keep working on economy, and turn it into a supporting troop of mercenaries that hold down your new lands.

Let me put it this way. When you play for Cultural victory, the time you get Mercantilism is probably the last tech you need, and when you should go all Cultural slider.

When you go Conquest, the same point is reached when you finish researching religious law. (Except you go income instead of culture).

Please note that I'm only saying this is true for a conquest victory if you are running Empyrean religion. It is a lot different if you are doing any other strategy.
 
Remember that there is another access to liberty. And oddly it's also related to the Empyrean, so cultural players get something interesting too. ;)
 
When you go Conquest, the same point is reached when you finish researching religious law. (Except you go income instead of culture).

I prefer to make it to either commune with nature or priesthood (former if I'm neutral, latter if I'm not.) Having 5 badass attack mages >>>>> having 1 + some more mercenaries.
 
I got an idea for vicars:
spell create embassy
gives culture, happines and/or a great persons boost.
And a realtions boost to the leader of the city.
 
I have always found it odd that the leader I've found Empyrean to be most useful with is Tasunke. Think about it; a religion which should value peace and wisdom adopted by a chaotic people under the command of a leader whose values are diametrically opposed to the Empyrean.

But Aggressive Raider Horselord Rathas are just so awesome.
 
I've mostly been playing Svartalfar before, going for Fellowship of Leaves or Council of Esus. Recently, I started playing Calabim, thinking I'd try to play a 'good' human-based civilization, somewhat atypically.

I checked the religions in the manual, to see which changed my alignment to what I wanted (Good) and generally checking which does what. I remember thinking that 'Empyrean is good, but Order is so much better. I'll take Empyrean first, and then when I get the Overcouncilthingomajig I'll change to Order'.

To my suprise, I had the two mixed up.
Now I really just can't see a reason whatsoever to change. Empyrean->Order would feel like a natural progression somehow (It's also funny when there's riots between them, because if there's two religions in FfH2 that I think could definately coexist, it's Order and Empyrean - I'd even like my Inquisitors to clear all other religions -except- -both- Order and Empyrean, when having either as State Religion) if not thematically correct.

The only real benefit I see is getting Radiant Guards so I can upgrade them to Vampires (Sun II, Death II, AND Body II? Yes please). But apart from that... Order just feels so thematically close and technicly superior, I don't see any reason to change.
 
I'll leave the explanation of why empyrean's hero is so good and why you're underrating sun 2 to others, and ask about this:

(It's also funny when there's riots between them, because if there's two religions in FfH2 that I think could definately coexist, it's Order and Empyrean - I'd even like my Inquisitors to clear all other religions -except- -both- Order and Empyrean, when having either as State Religion) if not thematically correct.

Wait, what? I thought order and AV were the only religions that could cause riot events if coexisting in the same city. Am I wrong? Someone get me up to date.

Does the event you're getting (if you're getting one at all) involve either destroying temples for empire-wide effect or doing nothing in the effected city for an extreme localized unhappiness penalty?

Thematically the way the two religions handle accused criminals to lead to some serious bloodshed between the two, especially if one is trying to throw around power gotten by being the state religion or something, but I'd be surprised if Kael put in an event to reflect that. Doesn't seem his style.
 
Revlation is only supposed to effect units not owned by you team, including enemies and other rivals. It removes Hidden, Invisible, and Hidden Nationality, and kills units with the illusion promotion.
 
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