When Do You Begin Improving Tiles?

[Sumorex]

In other words, a builder gives you some good things. A group of archers gives you everything.

I wholeheartedly endorse this message.

 

[Victoria]

Try playing GOTM6 and start with a worker first please.

Ok, as you said please. I will no doubt die but will try.
I would just like to point out though, that quite a few starts have the nearest civ a long way off.
Domination player will restart them.
I restart games where I get beaten up by barbs early

Edit: just downloaded, Peter emporer?, cannot be that bad.. CV as well Will read the write ups after I die

 

[Victoria]

Done .. turn 17 I survived. I headed south with my barb and found a barb camp I finally killed some scouts from the north came so I built a couple of slingers after my builder
craftsmenship nearly done, the builder has given me horseback riding and masony eurekas
Will prob leave my barb down in the wastes, build another and another slinger, wait for a eureka to turn them to archers and will send settler and slingers north east probably
An interesting starter map I'll play though cheers!
Cleo seems nice, I am on +7 with her... will it last when she sees my puny army... only time will tell, may be a good reason to take a city or 2 off her but if there is room for about 6 cities I'll probably just chill and hopefully win about 180-200 with a good wind

 

[Japper007]

In single player a worker is a waste of time since you can pick up all the eurekas and inspirations you need with the 3 slinger-->archers bum-rush into a crossbow steamroll. It's one of the reasons I've basically given up on SP until a sizeable AI patch and rebalance.

In MP you'll need that worker desperately to get horses pastured so you don't get crushed by the guy who *did* go early worker-->Horseback Riding.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Heh, oh sorry, i meant 7.

Just read the thread if you like.

I got dowed there by neighbour china on turn 12 and by neighbour sumeria on turn 18. Meanwhile barbs were roaming. Many players died before turns 20.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

In single player a worker is a waste of time since you can pick up all the eurekas and inspirations you need with the 3 slinger-->archers bum-rush into a crossbow steamroll. It's one of the reasons I've basically given up on SP until a sizeable AI patch and rebalance.

In MP you'll need that worker desperately to get horses pastured so you don't get crushed by the guy who *did* go early worker-->Horseback Riding.

Its so unfortunate that multiplayer is inconvenient with these long turn based games, i'd love to give it a try.

I did do a lot of multiplayer in other strategy games though, espescially starcraft. Probably THE most important thing in starcraft is to scout early, to scout well, and to keep scouting. You dont need to see a lot, a little info is usually enough to know what strategy the other player is doing.

This scouting was so important because while it is quite possible to defend against all the different options your opponent can throw at you in the first 5 minutes, it is not possible to so and meanwhile also invest properly in economic growth and/or technological development and thus by defending against things that do not happen early on, you will be guaranteed to lose in the long run.

Is it not the same in Civ multiplayer ? or are the scouts just too slow and vulnerable to provide the needed information ?

(civ multiplayer also seems vastly unfair to me, not only do you have the imbalance of starting races and positions, you also have the imbalance vs starting in the middle where obviously you cannot be scouting everyone around you and starting on a side where you can quite well scout your nearest neighbour and keep scouting him for a while)

 

[greygamer]

I would just like to point out though, that quite a few starts have the nearest civ a long way off.

Less likely on emperor or higher as the AI has more settlers so less room, that said an isolated start is still possible but it remains a risky strategy.

 

[Victoria]

I played the start of 7 @WackenOpenAir and survived, even with loosing my barb early to a camp. I did have to use one builder charge on a chop to get an extra slinger but I survived gotm7 with builder slinger slinger slinger warrior without reload or retry ofc. Gilga did not even attack me and is at +5. But I always knew what you meant but to be honest flexibility does mean survivability and I cannot remember the last deity I had to restart.
One more note is I would not normally start with builder on gotm7 as there was not really 3 tiles to benefit from.

 

[Victoria]

Less likely on emperor or higher as the AI has more settlers so less room, that said an isolated start is still possible but it remains a risky strategy.

OK.... I have had quite a few deity starts where the nearest civ was at least 10 tiles away, maybe its just my good luck.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

True about that flexibility of cutting if needed. Indeed i may need to start considering some more opening options.

 

[Victoria]

True about that flexibility of cutting if needed. Indeed i may need to start considering some more opening options.

Equally, that slinger opening is safe and strong. Both have benefits.

 

[Japper007]

Its so unfortunate that multiplayer is inconvenient with these long turn based games, i'd love to give it a try.

I did do a lot of multiplayer in other strategy games though, espescially starcraft. Probably THE most important thing in starcraft is to scout early, to scout well, and to keep scouting. You dont need to see a lot, a little info is usually enough to know what strategy the other player is doing.

This scouting was so important because while it is quite possible to defend against all the different options your opponent can throw at you in the first 5 minutes, it is not possible to so and meanwhile also invest properly in economic growth and/or technological development and thus by defending against things that do not happen early on, you will be guaranteed to lose in the long run.

Is it not the same in Civ multiplayer ? or are the scouts just too slow and vulnerable to provide the needed information ?

(civ multiplayer also seems vastly unfair to me, not only do you have the imbalance of starting races and positions, you also have the imbalance vs starting in the middle where obviously you cannot be scouting everyone around you and starting on a side where you can quite well scout your nearest neighbour and keep scouting him for a while)

Oh don't get me wrong a scout is often my first build even in MP, and always in SP, then I follow it up with a worker and 3 slingers.

And yeah, I agree that it's hard to find the time/group required for long MP sessions, though a duel game on a tiny map can be over pretty "quick" (1 1/2 to 2 hours).

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I understand that a scout is your first build in MP.

You were however stating that you have to connect your horses just incase someone else does it and attacks you. I was wondering if it is feasible to scout decide to do that or not based on your findings. Of course that cant happen if your in the middle and surrounded by 5, but i imagine when you're on the side with just 1 or 2 neighbors that you can pretty decently scout them and go full economy growth until you scout one of them preparing for aggression. It would surely be a reason to actually build a scout in multiplayer which i dont do in single player. I think it might actually be good for the game in multiplayer if scouts were cheaper and entirely without combat capability so that it would be more feasible to build 2 or 3 of them early and players can better react to eachothers strategies.

 

[rrhal]

As soon as I get 200 gold I build one for the early eurekas / production boost while I build an early army. I like to steal one for my second city but that is situational. I don't build them again until I kill my neighbor and start pumping out settlers. If you can time it you want a bunch ready to finish just after you get feudalism.