When do you commit to the win?

phillydilly

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
13
So I'm just making the jump to prince from noble, playing BTS, hemispheres, standard/large, random leader, random sea level/terrain

On Noble, I'd just play the game, kind of do whatever made sense, then as it gets around 1500AD or so, if it was a small world I could dominate, I'd go military, otherwise, just take my tech lead to a space win.

Now on Prince, I'm near the top of the tech race, but not quite there. On the scores I flip between second or third. Militarily, I'm strong enough to keep from being attacked, but I never feel like I can build up a decent enough force to go offensive. And I just kind of default to trying a cultural win somewhere around 1200-1500, which of course doesn't happen.

So two questions.
First any general tips on moving to prince? I've read a lot of threads, and have some, but any you care to reiterate would be appreciated.
Specialist economy. Never really tried it. Is now the time?
Lastly, when do you commit to a win? Do you pick your route as soon as your game starts base on your leader, or do you let it play out some first?
Thanks
 
First thing, score means nothing. Don't judge your situation on the score.

A general tip for prince, is, just warrior rush everyone nearby. They won't have any archers.

Specialist Economy, I think its better to utilize everything before moving on, so now should be the time to do so.

I often commit to a win, but its wrong. You should not commit yourself to a win. While your leader and civilization may affect the way you play your game, the map is the biggest factor. If your isolated, how can you do an early conquest? If you doing archipelago, how can you REX without boats? The point being, play it out first, and see what is the best way to handle the scenario.

Other than that, Welcome to the Forums, phillydilly. :cheers:
 
First any general tips on moving to prince? I've read a lot of threads, and have some, but any you care to reiterate would be appreciated.

You should take a look at Sisiutil's walkthrough (ALC games), he started on prince iirc... and also his guide for beginners (in the stategy article subforum, where many quality articles can be found btw).
General thought: expand to grab the max number of resources, build workers to improve them, grow your cities. Specialize them (one with Heroic Epic with mines and building military non stop, one with Oxford with cottages, one with national Epic with specialists...). Learn to not trade with everyone and their worst ennemie (aka diplo starts to become important at this level).

Specialist economy. Never really tried it. Is now the time?

heu dunno, up to you... the thing I know is that at prince level, you have to start growing Great People and think at the best way to use them :)

Lastly, when do you commit to a win? Do you pick your route as soon as your game starts base on your leader, or do you let it play out some first?
Thanks

This depends more on your confidence at the level you play: if you feel OK you can say "hey, I will start a quick domination game!"... if you are still challenged, you will have to access AIs progress and your chances to overcome them. (style: can I launch before them? can I dominate them before they launch? Is hatty going for cultural? Is Ramses going to steal the game with a lame AP win :mischief:?)

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

edit: and yeah, welcome on cfc! :)
 
Commiting to a victory condition at the beginning will almost always give you a faster victory of the condition you choose than if you had decided on a VC later. That is, if you end up deciding on culture midway through the game, you could have won a faster culture victory if you had been playing for it from the start.
 
True, but the map dictates things the most. Never commit to a VC until you know what the map has in store for you.

Basically, you want to commit to a VC when you're at that crossroads. You need to commit before you get to the point where if you delay, you'll miss out on all the VCs. So if you're debating space or military, when you get to decide to go on the space techs, or the military ones. Sometimes, you'll change your mind after committing. You might tech towards space, but then realize your cities have nothing to build but tanks and marines. Then maybe you go invade someone.

As for the skill levels, once you start getting Prince and higher is when you have to start thinking about how to play the game, instead of just playing it. So, at noble and below, I wouldn't bother trying any sort of specialist economy, or even care. You can go, change your mind a few times, and still make it.

Prince you have to start thinking. You have room for error. Maybe this is the time you set up a dedicated GP farm, which you've never done before. Or for some people, maybe this is when you first actually consciously run a specialist instead of letting the governor do everything for you. Play for each victory condition. Never got a cultural win? If the opportunity comes up in your game, give it a try. It makes you think a little.
 
First question, just play well following sound principles.
Second: you commit to a win once you see that's the best route to take, this will not be 4000 bc generally.
 
True, but the map dictates things the most. Never commit to a VC until you know what the map has in store for you.

This is fine if you are playing at a difficulty level where you rarely win, and you just want to get a win without regard to date or score. If you're playing at a manageable difficulty, you can force just about any map into any victory condition.

If you're playing HoF gauntlets, you usually have no choice of VC. And if you're playing GOTM, there's a fastest finish award for every VC, so there's no wrong VC to try. But you stand a much better chance if you decide on your VC from the start.
 
Just 2 schools of thoughts, imo.

Gunning for VC early is more or less hit and miss for HoF and high scores. Making educated guess of where map generator will put metals...etc.

Some people don't play reloads/restarts, so
more information => more educated guess => more low risk high reward decisions.

Some play for high score, some play for constantly able to win at high level coz they make good decisions based on what they know at that time, not hit and miss.

Either is fine, it's just a game. Enjoy playing it is more important, either way.
 
Oh thats obvious. First turn after I found my city, I decide that I can win. End of story.

Well, not really. Play through all of it first, then decide if you won when you get to victory screen.
 
Now on Prince, I'm near the top of the tech race, but not quite there. On the scores I flip between second or third.

Some of this will conflict with what's below. How seriously do you want to stay ahead in the tech race, as opposed to holding your own? A lot depends on what leader you're playing, as well as on the map. Although at Prince, really you have some flexibility.

There are two ways to approach the tech race: commerce and specialists. People talk about running a "cottage economy" or a "specialist economy." My own opinion is that a mix is best. Ideally, choose how many different types of specialist you want to seriously go for. (One -- scientists -- is the minimum. In descending order after that, in my own quite biased opinion, are merchants, spies, and then everything else. EXCEPT that if you are going for a culture win, artists are more important than anything else, even scientists.) Anyway: however many types of GPs you want to gun for, have one city specializing in each. Usually, for me, it's just one. For that one, max the farms, max the scientists -- if you have more, do the same for merchants or whatever. And build stuff in that town that enhances your chance of GPs of the appropriate type.

All other cities will specialize in either production or commerce. For production cities, lots of farms and stuff to crank out hammers. For commerce cities, lots of cottages. What terrain is good for each should be obvious.

One thing to bear in mind is that there's usually a trade-off between research and military expansion. That's always been true in Civ. This brings me to what I mean about leaders.

There are, in my opinion, exactly four hard-core military leader traits: Aggressive, Protective, Charismatic, and Imperialistic. Each of these traits is lying unused if you aren't at war. There are also three pure builder traits: Commercial, Philosophical, and Industrious. These traits aren't being used to full capacity if you ARE at war. The remaining four traits -- Spiritual, Organized, Expansive, and Creative -- are flexible and can assist either a warmongering or a building strategy. Given this, it's possible to categorize the leaders as follows:

Warmongers: Boudica, Brennus, Catherine, Charlemagne, Churchill, Cyrus, Genghis Khan, Gilgamesh, Hammurabi, Joao II, Julius Caesar, Justinian I, Kublai Khan, Mao Zedong, Montezuma, Napoleon, Qin Shi Huang, Saladin, Shaka, Tokugawa, Washington. All of these leaders have at least one military trait and no builder traits.

Builders: Asoka, Bismarck, Darius I, Elizabeth, Frederick, Gandhi, Huayna Capac, Louis XIV, Mansa Musa, Pacal II, Pericles, Peter, Rameses II, Roosevelt, Willem Van Orange. These have at least one builder trait and no military traits.

The remaining leaders are more balanced, having either no military or builder traits or one of each.

This is not to say that if you're playing a "Warmonger" from the above list you should never have any periods of peaceful building, nor that if you're playing a "Builder" you should never go a-conquering, only about which way you should lean in your strategy towards winning the game.

Militarily, I'm strong enough to keep from being attacked, but I never feel like I can build up a decent enough force to go offensive. And I just kind of default to trying a cultural win somewhere around 1200-1500, which of course doesn't happen.

I would say plan ahead for your wars of conquest, and if you're playing a warmonger leader plan on having more of them. There are certain windows of opportunity, in my opinion, based on technology and leader traits (and to some extent on UUs). These should be kind of obvious. Set one production city up as your unit factory. You should almost always have this city cranking out units. The only time it isn't, it should be building military buildings (barracks, stable, drydock, airport, Heroic Epic) or else whatever health/happiness buildings are necessary to keep it running smoothly. Some production enhancers may be OK, too, depending. (Remember a Forge is also a happiness building.)

Lastly, when do you commit to a win? Do you pick your route as soon as your game starts base on your leader, or do you let it play out some first?
Thanks

Some of both. What I would recommend is that if you're playing a warmonger leader, push for a domination win. That's easily shifted into diplomacy or space race if you decide either that's the way you want to go or that domination isn't doable in that game. Thing is, with a warmonger leader you have to have a bigger empire than the AI builders, and about the only way you're going to get it is to conquer it. So you might as well start out going for domination, even if you change your mind later.

If you're playing a builder leader, decide early whether you want to go for a cultural victory or not. If you do, you'll have a different strategy from the very first than if you don't. But if you don't, then you can make your choices among space race, diplomatic, or even domination (using your tech advantage) as events unfold.

If you're playing a balanced leader, pick either of those roads and it should be workable.
 
I tend to commit to a vc when I see the entire land mass I'm on. For example if Fractal gave me a pangea, I'll go all war all the time. Or if shuffle gave me Continents, I'll go to space after I own the one I'm on (too lazy to manage overseas wars).
 
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