Where do I go wrong, or am I just terrible?

[DiamondPirate]

Hey guys. I'm posted here cos it seems to most logical place to talk about this.

I've only started playing Civ from the launch of Civ4, but I'm really into it and enjoy the game. However.... I seem to be really bad, and dont seem to get any better. I've got Warlords and BtS, so I generally play on BtS now.

I basically play mainly on Chieften. And, I dont lose, which I probably next to impossible on such a simple difficult. But the only way I ever seem able to win is by Time or Space race.

I've not got game saves to upload as I've no net at home where I play (at work atm) but I'll try and explain how things generally pan out.

I'm usually always tech leader and the points leader. Usually from the start. I'll usually end up with most religions other then Hindu/Budda due to this. It nearly always means that when I meet other continents, you'll have block of countries in those religions that hate me.

My biggest problem is training an army. I never seem to have any time for it. Theres always buildings that need to be built to improve the econmy, or a wonder, and if there is a chance to do something else, I have to use it to train defence. If I ever do start training armies, I find that by the time I've got enough to mount a decent attack, the other civs have either teched a troop to counter it, or someone else will random start war with me just before i start on my indended target, so I end up using my force to counter that, and then I've basically just wasted a load of turns building a fighting force that never got to do what it as meant to.

The only times I occasionally get to have a meaningful war is late game, when I'm in modern with tanks and my opponent is in a previous era.... which isnt exactly the most fun (Its fun sure.... but its not quite right). And even, it really only ever happens if I turn time and space victory off, because otherwise I'll time out of have a ship finished before I've assembled an true fighting force.

The most I've ever managed before real late game is a few times I've got together a force to capture a city thats on my borders. But only the one city, and after that city is taken theres never enough troops to do anything but defend the city, so I have to end the war there.

Anyone that could give my ideas/advice will have my eternal gratitude, and if you need any more information or anything just ask and I'll reply.

Thank you in advance.

 

[reverend oats]

How many cities do you normally have?

 

[Sian]

... offhand i'd ask if you use siege ...

 

[843]

Top beginner's mistakes:
-building as many wonders as possible
-building everything on every city
-not amassing enough army
-no clear victory goal
-leaving workers on auto
-not optimizing tech trading

In fact, you remind me much of myself when I was starting out. Superior tech, weak army, and multiple wonders (in the capital), having both banks and factories in all cities, etc. I highly recommend you read this guide. It's helped me tremendously in achieving where I am now (Prince).

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/sisiutil.php

 

[vicawoo]

Specialize cities. High hammer cities have no need for libraries, markets, etc. Granary/barracks is sufficient early on. These should be busy making units.

Try playing without wonders, as well.

 

[DiamondPirate]

How many cities do you normally have?

I'll usually open with building/worker/settler/worker/settler and then go from there, so I'll always have 3 cities and its usually at about 6-7 cities before things start getting crowded.

... offhand i'd ask if you use siege ... ?

Assume you mean Catapults/Trebs. If I do manage to get a city taking block of troops, then yeah, it will include usually 2-3 trebs/cats to take down the walls and do a little collateral.

@843 - Yeah, I've started to not automate workers in the past week... but the rest generally apply. I'll have a read of that guide, thanks. Might even it print it..... not gonna cost me here at work

 

[DiamondPirate]

Specialize cities. High hammer cities have no need for libraries, markets, etc. Granary/barracks is sufficient early on. These should be busy making units.

Try playing without wonders, as well.

Thats something I dont really do well. I think I must think too much about having a good economy and so... the way I see it, nearly every building makes a city more effective... but obviously it is at a detriment to other things.

 

[MattX]

Assume you mean Catapults/Trebs. If I do manage to get a city taking block of troops, then yeah, it will include usually 2-3 trebs/cats to take down the walls and do a little collateral.

Sounds like a lot more siege is required to remove cultural defence quickly then suicide a few before using more siege to achieve maximum collateral damage before sending in mop up units.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Quick thoughts

• Civ is a strategy game, play it as such
• The most straight forward wins are based on having more land than the next largest rival. This normally means eliminating one or more rivals to claim their land, usually before the renaissance era ends.
• Siege units should be more than an afterthought. A typical distribution when going to war is for an army to be half siege, half units. The siege units die, the other units get stronger, and for the next war you build more siege.

I'll usually open with building/worker/settler/worker/settler and then go from there, so I'll always have 3 cities and its usually at about 6-7 cities before things start getting crowded.

This may indicate that you are hurting yourself by being in a hurry. Worker first is a good start, but in most games you will have time to grow your city (more population) before you need to start founding more cities.

The most I've ever managed before real late game is a few times I've got together a force to capture a city thats on my borders. But only the one city, and after that city is taken theres never enough troops to do anything but defend the city, so I have to end the war there.

You might try this discipline for a game: train at least one military unit each time you finish building something else. Yes, that means you can't have the shiny new building now, you have to do a unit first.

This will very quickly get you to a point where you have "way too many" units. Cure this by using them .

 

[DiamondPirate]

Sounds like a lot more siege is required to remove cultural defence quickly then suicide a few before using more siege to achieve maximum collateral damage before sending in mop up units.

The problem isnt really not being able to take cities... its that I just never seem to have the time to train enough offensive troops. I find that when I do make an attack early on, thier def is only at about 40-60%, and two trebs generally bring that down to nothing in 2 turns anyway.

 

[vanatteveldt]

I agree with the points the other people make: don't build everything everywhere, don't try to build all wonders, and allow your cities to grow to their potential.

I'll usually end up with most religions other then Hindu/Budda due to this. It nearly always means that when I meet other continents, you'll have block of countries in those religions that hate me.

Founding religions is not always a good idea, I'd almost say almost never. Only found a religion if you are planning to spend the missionaries to spread it around aggresively, or if you are (semi)isolated. Normally, let the AI do the hard work of spreading, and just adopt the dominant religion or no religion.

I think I must think too much about having a good economy and so... the way I see it, nearly every building makes a city more effective... but obviously it is at a detriment to other things.

Just think of it like this: CIV is a military game, the economy is there for two reaons: to pay for units, and to pay for researching units. The goal is units, commerce is just one of the ingredients in the mix.

What I often do is this: once you know the map, how crowded it is etc., think whether you want to attack someone (good land, nearby, shiny wonder/religion), then think about when to attack (eg catapults+elephants, catapults+swordsmen, macemen, riflemen, cannon etc.), then aim for those techs (+enough economy to get there quickly), STOP researching, and just go for all out war with those units. Rinse and repeat.


Try playing a game with these rules:
- no wonders
- no founding religions
- max 2 buildings per city per era, OR one unit after each building

Good luck!

 

[DiamondPirate]

My logic with religions basically stems from again, this efficency obbsession I seem to have. I always wanted to have a state religion in every one of my cities, so that I'd be getting the best bonuses from my Civic, and then I'd want loads of religions near the end so I could go to free religion.

I definately need to try and reprogram the way I think. Efficency is great... but only when applied according to an over-arching goal/strategy. My other problem is wonder whoring, which basically has stemmed from the train of thought "Well... I dont want someone else to get the advantage of it."

And what I've just realised..... far more effective to use the 30 turns you'd spend on wonder building troops, and then conquering the city that spent 30 turns building it. AND Its far more efficent that way anyway

Thank you for everyone thats given help so far. Great forum this is, its rare to post that your a newbie idiot and not get flamed to death

 

[Sian]

we rarely (if ever) flames newbies ... those getting most flames is those that flames newbies

but yeah ... it really can be summed up as this one thing: "Build more units"

oh ... and another thing that'll help if you feel that you unit get to old to quick ... play a slower speed such as epic, and don't be affaid of using slavery to get them fast

 

[DiamondPirate]

Right, so I've printed the guide off, and taken on board the advice given. I'll run a game tonight.. what do people suggest? I have an unhealthy obsession with Huge Earth map games with loads of civs... and its probably not going to be the best setup to learn from.

I've noticed that theres very few flames anywhere at all on these forums. It makes me wonder whether its really an internet forum or just a cunning illusion

 

[vanatteveldt]

it's an illusion, we are all bots. But we like it that way.

play a small game, small, tiny, or even duel, and go out and kill someone!

Try playing duel, and try to conquer the world before christ comes along!~

 

[Maaximillus]

Huge "earth" maps are actually easier if you play enoughly agressively (you easily get empire far bigger than AI's)

 

[Joshua368]

Yeah, you don't want to build everything in every city. Look carefully and only build what the building needs.

Your capital city and very nearby cities for example may not need courthouses until corporations come around, as their maitenance is so low. Cities that produce barely any research to not need libraries or universities. Cities that won't be making units do not need barracks. Aqueducts/colloseums/etc aren't needed until the city reaches or gets close to its happy or health cap. Walls and castles are rarely needed at all.

Making every city "the best it can be" is a misguided effort. If a city is only working 5 commerce for a grand total of 3 or 4 beakers, a library isn't making it any better.

The only building I'd say to always put in every city is the granary - food is key.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums DiamondPirate.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The problem isnt really not being able to take cities... its that I just never seem to have the time to train enough offensive troops. I find that when I do make an attack early on, thier def is only at about 40-60%, and two trebs generally bring that down to nothing in 2 turns anyway.

If you "don't have the time" to train offensive troops, it means you're putting hammers into buildings you don't need, or aren't whipping/working tiles optimally.

City specialization is a big help in this case.

Also, siege helps for more than just bombardment - it causes collateral damage making the aggregate units you lose smaller if you're willing to suicide one or two siege units. Of course, if they're strong enough they can survive, and city raider promotions will assist that. Using city raider vs barrage is situational. On rare occasions I might even use drill on siege (want to cause collateral but also to damage a very tough top defender with first strikes, and there aren't a lot of total defenders).

In a lot of my war games my cities making units have nothing but a granary, a forge, and a barracks, and train units exclusively. Granted, sometimes you want more in the city making units like heroic epic or a capitol doing double-duty (one of the only cities that will).

Also, nobody is just inherently terrible, so drop that line of thinking, even as a possibility . Expectation of improvement is a big factor in actual improvement...depending on how much you care you can get to any level you want in this game...all depends on what's fun for you.

 

[Capellan]

I highly recommend you read this guide. It's helped me tremendously in achieving where I am now (Prince).

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/sisiutil.php

Seconded.

Once you've read the guide, see the concepts put into practical application:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=216961

Seriously. Read a few of those ALC games and you'll be hopping up a difficulty level in no time. I still remember the first time I saw one of sisiutil's armies. Never had it been so clear to me that I was not building enough units