Where is the artificial intelligengence?

WilliamTell

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
5
I have a car that parks itself. I can ask Siri who won the world cup, and Alexa will play music from the naughtiees, but Civ VI is dumb as hell. Gandhi declares war on me for no reason, and I can not ask "Why".

Civ should respond: "you do not see value in life, therefore you have no value" or whatever Gandhi would say.

Anyone else missing that? Real AI? We have self driving cars and the AI in Civ is still super stupid.
 
Usually with sufficient intelligence you can determine why they declared war on you. If it's still in the ancient or classical era they most likely declared on you because you are weak.

The irony is most declare war on me because I'm a warmonger.

I'm sure there were many times in history when one civilization attacked another without the victim realizing the reason why. Yes I know, gameplay>realism in most cases. I'm sure this is especially true in ancient times. Did the Persians ever tell the Greeks why they attacked them? The simple answer was they wanted more land and to conquer the known world I suppose.
 
Your car cost thousands of dollars.."parking" has been done for a couple hundred years and will probably be done for a couple hundred more.
Your phone cost hundreds of dollars...hundreds of millions of people want to know about the world cup

Your copy of civ6 cost less than a hundred... and will not be played much in 10 years, definitely not in 30, and at best will have a few million people that ever play it

(also Siri can't park your car, your car can't tell you who won the world cup, and neither of them can play civ6)
 
Where is the artificial intelligengence?

Thimk more deeply! ;)
Civ6 is still a work in progress. It will be updated and tweaked over the next couple of years.
 
I have a car that parks itself. I can ask Siri who won the world cup, and Alexa will play music from the naughtiees, but Civ VI is dumb as hell. Gandhi declares war on me for no reason, and I can not ask "Why".

Civ should respond: "you do not see value in life, therefore you have no value" or whatever Gandhi would say.

Anyone else missing that? Real AI? We have self driving cars and the AI in Civ is still super stupid.

Can't miss what i haven't seen in my time mate.
Has real AI taken over where you come from just like Hawkin, Wozniak and Musk predicted or what ?
 
Can't believe seven replies and each one is stupider than the last, Gaunt, Tonka, Ferocitus, you guys are on a roll keep it up.

I remember reading a similar thread about Stellaris, another 4X game like Civilization. This was around the time that Google computer bet the world champion at some game I can't remember the name of, and the it was like, why is '4X AI so bad?' Especially considering AI today compared to the 1990's, it seems like nothing has changed.

The Stellaris AI developer replied and explained that a game like Steallaris or Civilization is simply far too complex for any AI method we have today to process. AI seems to generally operate on a tree method, where every possible choice creates a fork and the computer processes inputs to determine which fork is best. In a 4X game there are simply too many states that the game can be in for a computer to process everything and then come up with the appropriate answer.

If you think about Chess vs. Civilization, Civilization is tremendously more complex. Every possible choice is a new fork in that tree that a computer AI uses to choose what to do. In Civilization, every possible choice by every player will create a new possibility to be followed up on. Then this needs to followed through for the entire game, so you end up with something much much higher than even trillion*trillion, I imagine.

The examples you cited, parking a car, Alexa,Siri are solving simpler problems, and are quite frankly, faking their AI imo. It's not difficult to confuse Siri, and Tesla cars will happy drive you into the side of truck. Don't believe the hype, 'AI' is a long way off.

Furthermore Civ 6 'fakes' their intelligence by adding character traits which simplify the AI in a meaningful way to the player.

It is amazing that every iteration of these games the AI is the same. This is simply an area of technology that has not developed in the slightest.
 
I wonder if there is a way to train a neural network type AI to play a game like Civilization on a super computer, and then distill all those learnings into a simpler and less processor intensive implementation for the pc version.

Generally, there will need to be some sort of breakthrough in how AI is done, since the current ways of doing things don't appear to be satisfactory.
 
Can't believe seven replies and each one is stupider than the last, Gaunt, Tonka, Ferocitus, you guys are on a roll keep it up.

I remember reading a similar thread about Stellaris, another 4X game like Civilization. This was around the time that Google computer bet the world champion at some game I can't remember the name of, and the it was like, why is '4X AI so bad?' Especially considering AI today compared to the 1990's, it seems like nothing has changed.

The Stellaris AI developer replied and explained that a game like Steallaris or Civilization is simply far too complex for any AI method we have today to process. AI seems to generally operate on a tree method, where every possible choice creates a fork and the computer processes inputs to determine which fork is best. In a 4X game there are simply too many states that the game can be in for a computer to process everything and then come up with the appropriate answer.

If you think about Chess vs. Civilization, Civilization is tremendously more complex. Every possible choice is a new fork in that tree that a computer AI uses to choose what to do. In Civilization, every possible choice by every player will create a new possibility to be followed up on. Then this needs to followed through for the entire game, so you end up with something much much higher than even trillion*trillion, I imagine.

The examples you cited, parking a car, Alexa,Siri are solving simpler problems, and are quite frankly, faking their AI imo. It's not difficult to confuse Siri, and Tesla cars will happy drive you into the side of truck. Don't believe the hype, 'AI' is a long way off.

Furthermore Civ 6 'fakes' their intelligence by adding character traits which simplify the AI in a meaningful way to the player.

It is amazing that every iteration of these games the AI is the same. This is simply an area of technology that has not developed in the slightest.
I dont know what you are smoking but AI has become gradually poorer since civ4.

AI civ4>civ5>civ6.

About your chess comment, it is correct. However combat is like chess and it is the worst part of game, and so far the easiest part to program, but it is absolutely crap.
 
Usually with sufficient intelligence you can determine why they declared war on you. If it's still in the ancient or classical era they most likely declared on you because you are weak.

The irony is most declare war on me because I'm a warmonger.

I'm sure there were many times in history when one civilization attacked another without the victim realizing the reason why. Yes I know, gameplay>realism in most cases. I'm sure this is especially true in ancient times. Did the Persians ever tell the Greeks why they attacked them? The simple answer was they wanted more land and to conquer the known world I suppose.
on me they declared war even though my military was double or three times as strong as them and they kept declaring war even though I crushed them.
 
I have a car that parks itself. I can ask Siri who won the world cup, and Alexa will play music from the naughtiees, but Civ VI is dumb as hell. Gandhi declares war on me for no reason, and I can not ask "Why".

Civ should respond: "you do not see value in life, therefore you have no value" or whatever Gandhi would say.

Anyone else missing that? Real AI? We have self driving cars and the AI in Civ is still super stupid.

Yes I miss real AI's . The creators said that civ 6 would have it, but it doesn't look like it.
 
I think it would be time to start building your own personal bombshelter when an AI becomes capable to play Civ like a human would.
 
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I wonder if IBM will train Watson to play Civilization :borg:
 
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