Where should we found the second city? - redone

[Rik Meleet]

After botching previous city placement polls, I hope this one turns out okay. Due to time constraints (why do we have a chat so early anyway?) this poll will be open until the beginning of the chat, about 42 hours. DO NOT VOTE AFTER THE CHAT BEGINS. Here is the discussion, and here is the picture detailing where the city locations are:

PS: Special thanks to cyc for his advice and inspiration in getting this poll set up correctly.

Posted originally by Noldodan.

 

[Cyc]

Smooth move changing the letters around from the original map in the discussion thread. Even though you finally got a ledgible map up, the change of letters will probably score you at least a couple of wrong votes.

 

[DaveShack]

Smooth move changing the letters around from the original map in the discussion thread. Even though you finally got a ledgible map up, the change of letters will probably score you at least a couple of wrong votes.

Both our comments need to be directed at Noldodan and not Rik.

I agree, the quality of the image is deplorable, and it's bordering on criminal to poll something in different terms than it was discussed under. Also with so many options, we will have potential for a tie -- better get a ruling on whether the minister gets to break ties before you try it.

 

[Provolution]

I would like every proposal backed in this thread by a 3-5 line short presentation, and to include the tilevalues of 6-12 tiles. This could be done by the proposers or by the Domestic, I think it is somehow important that we have more background on why here.

Cut and paste if you already made a valid argument, counted the tiles.

 

[Noldodan]

Discussion links. Stupid JPEG format losing quality...

 

[Cyc]

Both our comments need to be directed at Noldodan and not Rik.

I agree, the quality of the image is deplorable, and it's bordering on criminal to poll something in different terms than it was discussed under. Also with so many options, we will have potential for a tie -- better get a ruling on whether the minister gets to break ties before you try it.

I was talking to Noldodan. There's no way I could blame RM for this.

 

[Epimethius]

B will encompase all the gems, as well as some minable hills and mountains and irrigatable desert. So I say we go for that.

And I think describing each spot with a paragraph would only satisfy one person, while confusing all the others.

 

[Provolution]

The experiences so far in the game has convinced me that we need a governmental reform, as the superministry Domestic has too many tasks for one person to handle, and that I see that some other ministries overlap and do the same work.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Enough with the one-tile-inland cities! Future trade and military strategy hang in the balance! Vote C!

 

[Cyc]

Right on! Go D! A true powerhouse builder. Good for expansion and/or military.

 

[invy]

I'm going for cyc's proposal because it will be great production city and it will make us to built temple earlier to get gems. It seems we go early for monarchy so those hills will be useful.
Other locations are simply sad.
Still i would rather go risky to the north becuase there could be floods but position D will do it.
AND lets do something to bring that warrior back closer to capital so we can discover more land we can settle,and not some 1000+miles away territory where he is now. Our warrior already found horses and many hills for possible iron, i think he finished his job there.
Post opinions to scouting thread or make a new thread (what is military advisor doing btw?).

 

[Epimethius]

D only gets on gem. And since we'll probably found cities to the east and north for a while, there's a good chance when we get to founding a city to get the rest (plus that horse) it'll be someone else's.

And there are two people in domestic. The only problem we have is with starting polls.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Well, at least Site D will only have one useless coastal tile instead of 3, like our capital. So I guess this is a slight improvement.

Regardless, 1-tile-inland cities are borne of short-sightedness as they actually steal away from building potential cities inland, as well as diminish coastal control of our great nation. Having not learned our first lesson, we are about to build two of them. In a row. As our opening strategy.

How are people from other lands going to come visit our capital? How do we plan to send troops to a port city from our capital, or even defend ourselves by sea? Don't you feel that our capital city should be in close proximity to a harbor since it is founde so close to the coast(but yet so far away)?

Sure, Site D has great numbers, but think like a city planner would think. Do you really think that city surveyors would deny themselves a coastal location twice?. Do you really think that a nation with dreams of grandeur would not think to have convenient port access from their most influential city? We need to think aesthetically in this game as well as optimally. We are playing on Monarch, for cryin' out loud. We are assured victory.

Don't ignore these things, or else we may be thinking true to form after all. Because at this time, we are really only people with sticks that grunt. Our city planning is certainly starting to illustrate that.

 

[blackheart]

I say G. We immediately get one of the gems, and get more when the borders expand. It lays on the coast so we can have some trade acces. There are plains . forests, and hills nearby so we will have some growth and a very good industry base. This would also make a good fortress city for us. We also won't overlap any tiles with the capital and get maximum land tile usage.

 

[Provolution]

Since the intention is to follow the Iron Working and Monarchy Path, we are not going overseas anytime soon. It also looks like we are on a seriously large continents western coast, a 3 billion year planet, dry and warm. This means we are going to see considerable
massives of mountains, large deserts some jungle and so on, with critical river locations to secure. Japanatica seems to develop into two regions, the central region of Zarnia, and the future highlands of Province 2. which probably will have all our strategic resources and luxuries, horses, iron and gems. After City D, it makes sense to develop Yotsubishi in the far south and "Crazy Horse" in order to get horses and gems.
By the time we found "Crazy Horse" we will have researched iron working, which is the best tech right now. This enables better settlement.

So city planning must be seen in our tech route strategy context. If we needed a port now, I would have voted G, if we needed Gems now, I would have voted for Yotsubishi, and for horses, farther south. Certainly, Crazy Horse will be a coastal city.

 

[blackheart]

It's a matter of future planning. There could be unforseen circumstances that would lead us to get an ocean port up and running, like maybe trading for a resource.

 

[Epimethius]

From the look of the coast, it seems it would actually be better to build a port on the bay to the north, because it would be closer to the capital and all. Plus losing the city would not be such a disaster, since we wouldn't also lose gems.

 

[superpelon]

south of H. but thats my opinion anyway.

positions C and H are also ok

 

[Black_Hole]

after much thought, i believe D will be the best location

 

[Gregski]

Seriously people, we cannot afford to keep building cities one tile away from the coast. In my view, C is the best option for the coastal city and F if we actually want to make good progress. (After F, we can put a city one tile south of H eventually).