where to build windmill?

[Heroes]

I know machinery, but my worker can't build windmill on grassland. Is windmill only available on hill?

 

[Marsan]

yupp....if you could build them anywhere there would be too strong probably

 

[Xeos]

I put windmills on any hill that doesn't need a mine for a resource.

 

[cursif]

Even the lovely forest/hills combo which you could [eventually] put up a lumbermill on?

 

[Bezhukov]

Note: rails benefit lumbermills (and mines of course, both get +1 shield), but not windmills or watermills.

Given all requisite techs, mines/lumbermills give two more shields than a windmill, but the windmill gives +1 food and +2 commerce (the lumbermill gives +1 commerce if on a river, and the preserved forest gives +.4 health, as well). As the food is equivalent to half a specialist, I'd say all things equal, the windmill wins out.

On the other hand, all things are often not equal.

 

[Ruffin]

Why would you use a windmill instead of a mine? I've been putting them by cities without much arable farmland to try to boost food production, but that's the only use I see for them.

 

[Heroes]

Note: rails benefit lumbermills (and mines of course, both get +1 shield), but not windmills or watermills.

Given all requisite techs, mines/lumbermills give two more shields than a windmill, but the windmill gives +1 food and +2 commerce (the lumbermill gives +1 commerce if on a river, and the preserved forest gives +.4 health, as well). As the food is equivalent to half a specialist, I'd say all things equal, the windmill wins out.

On the other hand, all things are often not equal.

Interesting! Do you or any one have a list of all the improvements (their requirements and benefits)?

 

[kbmusiclover]

Windmill and watermill are the opposities of mine and farm, plus currency. What I mean is, mine goes on hill, gets production, farm goes on fresh water ground, gets food. But about halfway through the game, you get wind/water mills, which are food going on the hill and adding currency, and production going on watered ground and adding currency.

No simpler way to put it, really. They're better than mine/farm, as long as you can coordinate it properly so that you don't lose out on your previous benefits, you merely gain. It's tricky, but not impossible.

 

[Ruffin]

Mills destroy farms and mines, right? So how do you gain?

 

[warpstorm]

Interesting! Do you or any one have a list of all the improvements (their requirements and benefits)?

Yeah, it's called the manual. Failing that you could look in the XML files.

 

[warpstorm]

Mills destroy farms and mines, right? So how do you gain?

Because you get commerce in addition to food and hammers.

 

[Ruffin]

Because you get commerce in addition to food and hammers.

Instead of food and hammers. The mills destroy the mines and farms, right? So (e.g.) you're losing a farm to get a mill, producing less food, but gaining one coin of commerce. How is that good?

Or are they in addition to the farm/mine?

 

[Pinstar]

I always build windmills on hills rather than mines. As you move up the tech tree, you discover techs to make your farms, windmills, watermills and lumber mills more productive, however no techs improve the output of mines.

 

[jar2574]

I always build windmills on hills rather than mines. As you move up the tech tree, you discover techs to make your farms, windmills, watermills and lumber mills more productive, however no techs improve the output of mines.

great point. mines are best initially, but towards the end, towns, farms, and the rest are better IMO.

 

[CitizenCain]

I always build windmills on hills rather than mines. As you move up the tech tree, you discover techs to make your farms, windmills, watermills and lumber mills more productive, however no techs improve the output of mines.

You sure? I seem to remember my railroads giving me an extra hammer on my mined hills. I'll have to go back and play another game to be sure.

 

[Heroes]

I always build windmills on hills rather than mines. As you move up the tech tree, you discover techs to make your farms, windmills, watermills and lumber mills more productive, however no techs improve the output of mines.

En, I get the rule to deal with hills: mine if there is a resource (otherwise it's not connected), windmill if not.

What to do for grass forest and plain forest? Is the best way always lumbermill?

What to do for grassland and plain? Only farm?

Is workshop ever good?

 

[Bezhukov]

The lumbermill/rail benefit thing isn't in the manual, but is in the game.

What this whole discussion is missing is the idea of specialization that C4 really emphasizes. If you need to maximize production, say for a wonder build, or setting up a troop factory with Heroic Epic, a mine (or forest + lumbermill) gives 2 more shields than a windmill. But what a windmill lets you do is:

A. Generate more commerce from hill tiles
B. Build towns instead of farms on your non-hill tiles and still not starve
C. Combine them with farms to provide extra food for specialists.

To do these things, however, you're giving up two shields for each one food (considering rail benefit), so make sure that's what you're after. During the pre-rail stages of the game, it's only one-for-one, and you can even use the mill to grow your city, then switch to mine when full grown. Lots of options.

 

[Bezhukov]

In theory, workshops can be good stopgaps for optimizing cities that have temporary non-terrain limits on growth (happiness/health issues), which can happen quite frequently mid game. In practice, by the time you have the techs that would make this worthwhile, you also have other better options as well.

Where I've found them to be excellent is in flipping all my farms to workshops for some short-term starvation wonder building - especially during Golden Ages. Conceivably, you could have some sick production powerhouses with workshops and the State Property civic, but I have trouble giving up the sweet Free Market gold...