Where's the ban?!

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by col
They also need to be publicly accountable.
A system can be built on trust until that trust is betrayed then we realise trust is not enough.

The policy here is that they are accountable only to and evaluated only by Thunderfall. Public trust is of course very important for effective discahrge of their duties and significant towards their de facto power and influence, but is in no way the basis of their de jure authority here, which derives from one source only.
When I am exercising judgment (which is most of the time in moderation, few situations being black letter), I do ask my self two questions, what result would Thunderfall want, and what of the available processes whould he prefer that I to use to get there.

 

[gonzo_for_civ]

That misses the point. The banned person would know they weren't on the list and could take action immediately.

If ANYONE is ever banned and can't figure out why they are asked to tell TF, it doesn't matter if there's a public ban list or not.

With respect, asking mods to vote for this is like asking the police to decide whether they want to fill out the paperwork for a crime

It wasn't just mods. In fact, several more posters voted, than did mods. I think it was TF who suggested the idea in the first place.

A system can be built on trust until that trust is betrayed then we realise trust is not enough.

I disagree, there is not a problem w/the current system. One person made a mistake, that's it. We all make them. I have no idea who banned choke but they obviously made a mistake, and now they are too much of a wimp to admit it. The only reason Choke was banned for so long is because he failed to contact Thunderfall sooner. Until this happens again, there won't even be consideration of changing the system. Not to mention the fact that we'll be using vb3.0 soon, which allows for moderator activity logging.

Alcibiaties of Athenae, you just don't wanna let go of your banning rod.

No, he doesn't, and I don't nor does any other mod. If we did, all we could do in a flame war is fan the flames, not to mention waiting for TF to log on when someone is spamming all over the forums doesn't exactly work well

They also need to be publicly accountable. and they need to be protected against unwarrented accusations and the current aura of suspicion.

Unfortunately w/our current version of VB no protection is possible. What're we gonna do, make an "I didn't ban so and so" post in the thread. Yeah, that'll help

I propose an independant person who is given the list of active bans one per day(week?).

We've given the list to approximately 20 people.

this person is also given the logfile of the bans done by the mods.

Impossible.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ

No, he doesn't (want to give up his banning Rod), and I don't nor does any other mod.

Except me. I prefered the earlier system where recomendations for restriction were made to TF; he did the ban, This, of course, became unworkable for him as the number of posters and volume of posts increased. Even TF has to reserve some time for sleep, eat, class, SEX, study, game play, SEX.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Ming
Some gutless coward banned somebody for absolutely no legal reason, and is now afraid to stand up and admit it.

I think drunk or stoned and has no recollection is yet a significant possibility. Some of these younsters might be bingers.

 

[Napoleon Hitler]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Except me. I prefered the earlier system where recomendations for restriction were made to TF; he did the ban, This, of course, became unworkable for him as the number of posters and volume of posts increased. Even TF has to reserve some time for sleep, eat, class, SEX, study, game play, SEX.

Thank you Lefty. My respect for you has a mod has just gone way up.

I also understand that TF is very busy...that is why I recommended him choosing a couple supermods that could also ban. Also, you could give the normal mods the power of "arrest" which would be a ban that automatically ends in 24 hours - unless extended by a supermod or TF.

Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
No, he doesn't, and I don't nor does any other mod. If we did, all we could do in a flame war is fan the flames, not to mention waiting for TF to log on when someone is spamming all over the forums doesn't exactly work well

Actually, in a flame war, you can edit posts. That is what mods do...they edit posts. If you are having some poster screwing things up with endless spam, delete his posts.

 

[Ming]

Originally posted by col
That misses the point. The banned person would know they weren't on the list and could take action immediately.

I would think that anybody that couldn't post and hasn't been contacted by PM or email would take action immediately. While some mod here pulled a cowards trick, Choke still should have contacted TF right away. The fact that he didn't was his mistake, not a problem with the system.

Everyone else would know who was banned, when and why with considerable deterrence to future offenders. I would expect the number of bans to decrease very rapidly if all could see the results of certain actions.

I disagree completely. You would be creating a list of dishonor.
But you would also be creating a lits that some people would want to be on. I've seen threads where people brag about how many times they have banned It's much better for the list not to be public, as was decided by the Owner after a long discussion.

 

[Ming]

And to continue...

Mods need the full power to ban on a drop of hat. You may think it's easy to "clean" up the damage after somebody spams, but it is a pain in the neck.

It's much easier to just shut the person down BEFORE they can cause real harm.

Their current system already has a balance system built in. The mod acts... posts it... and if TF disagrees (who is the only person that really matters) he changes it.

To have the mods vote on it would only cause friction between mods... Plus, being a mod isn't an exact science... even mods can disagree when evaluating similar circumstances... Since they are acting in the "best interest of the site", only TF can make the call since it's his site

 

[SunTzu]

I don't get stoned, it rots the mind

 

[gonzo_for_civ]

Actually, in a flame war, you can edit posts. That is what mods do...they edit posts. If you are having some poster screwing things up with endless spam, delete his posts.

Yeah, sounds great! Except one thing...oh yeah..I'm not a babysitter

There isn't a chance in hell that I'm gonna follow a poster around deleting and editing posts until either he stops or a 'supermod' shows up. Thanks for your opinions on how we should mod though.

 

[floppa21]

(good thing I'm not a mod... This would be done and over with and I would be behind bars with a wingspan of TP and a big bad man as my "special friend", possibly even Rodgers!!! And all the mods would stream by my cell and laugh and point...) It's good not to be a mod!!!

It is pointless saying mods should be downsized per se. It won't happen and it shouldn't happen. Culprit is not going to come forward. Either a dirtball or a mistake and not even an issue as far as they are concerned since it was a mistake and thus unknown. When's the new VBBS come out? T'won't be a problem after that.

 

[col]

Ok folks, I've said my piece and thats it. I'm pleased that there has been a sensible discussion about some important issues.

Ming's argument about the list of ill fame is a powerful one. I know from personal experience in my job how true that can be and I'm happy to accept that such a list may be self-defeating in the long run.

I'm not sure ultimately that TF is the only person who's opinion counts here, but then 've always had democratic leanings and I respect his choices as the final arbiter. I'm sure that he and the mods will be thinking about how this situation can be avoided in the future

Ive achieved what I wanted.

 

[SunTzu]

TF is god here, there is no democracy, its a dictatorship, TF makes the rules, you follow them or we execute you And like in all dictatorships sometimes innocents get executed for the good of the nation
Clear enough for you?

 

[hbdragon88]

AoA said the same thing as well...

So what should I do? Give Thunderfall some tribute now, oh sire? I shalt give thou only the finest wines and incese, and the best rubber that is poorly synthetic.

I have no doubt in my mind that what Thunderfall has done to punish the innocent was wrong; I have full assurance that what he did was for his own good. :wink:

 

[SunTzu]

what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Choke]

Just so everyone knows, I AM watching and reading this thread even if I'm not posting my opinions.

 

[SunTzu]

joy

 

[Ming]

Originally posted by SunTzu
joy

Nice way to treat the victim.

I think he has shown amazing levels of restraint since he was the one that was SCREWED by somebody here.

Hmmmm... you seem to be showing some hostility toward him

 

[SunTzu]

i said joy in a nice way ming, i want this horrific crime solved as much as the next person thats why we have detective ming on the case

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by Ming


Nice way to treat the victim.

I think he has shown amazing levels of restraint since he was the one that was SCREWED by somebody here.

Hmmmm... you seem to be showing some hostility toward him

I can't find that link you posted about this incident , that seemed related, from your site could you post it again. Please! If not thanks anyway.

 

[gonzo_for_civ]

AoA said the same thing as well...

So what should I do? Give Thunderfall some tribute now, oh sire? I shalt give thou only the finest wines and incese, and the best rubber that is poorly synthetic.

Considering no one asked you to give him tribute you could consider not being a smart alec

TF is the only leader here, that means only he makes decisions and if someone else doesn't like that they can leave.

I have no doubt in my mind that what Thunderfall has done to punish the innocent was wrong; I have full assurance that what he did was for his own good. :wink:

Sun said it best:

what the hell are you talking about?

I think (choke) has shown amazing levels of restraint since he was the one that was SCREWED by somebody here.

I agree.