Where's the ban?!

[col]

The mods round here do an excellent job and are well respected.

Thats why its so important that TF and CFC is seen to respond to this situation and not to sweep the issue under the carpet.

Perhaps there could be a public banned thread where every ban made is listed with duration, mod ,user and reason for ban. If it doesnt appear there then its an accident and TF will rescind it.

Public accountability does matter.

 

[disorganizer]

Ok...now my proposal:

I propose an independant person who is given the list of active bans one per day(week?). this person is also given the logfile of the bans done by the mods.
if this person detects an active ban which is not listed in the log, he/she pm's TF to delete the ban.

EDIT:
we could also do the log in public and have TF post the active-ban list daily (weekly) and have all posters review the lists and PM TF.

 

[Chieftess]

Proposal? I think you've been in the demogame too long dis. But, Thunderfall can always check...

@Col - I think I saw that discussion somewhere in the depths of the forum... and of course, was decided against.

 

[disorganizer]

@ct:
i sensed the request to have official measures in here... so that would be a proposal of how to implement a independant measure of ensuring no bans which are not logged occur until the forum software is updated with a version allowing to actually see who did the ban

***offtopic:
and yes, i have been there to long... and i hope you notice that the demogame starts to spread to the whole forum like a disease!
(just kidding).
... maybe a senate and a executive commitee would nevertheless be a good idea. a constitution should also be there first. and of course COL and COS!...

 

[col]

Originally posted by Chieftess

Col - I think I saw that discussion somewhere in the depths of the forum... and of course, was decided against.

That was then. This is now.
The situation is different now, I'd say. There is a problem to be resolved that may not have happened before. More than that there is a credibility problem to overcome that needs to be addressed.

If confidence is lost in the mods and their honesty, the forums are in trouble. This is a management problem!

"We've never done it that way" or "we tried it and it didn't work" are the kiss of death for any organisation.

 

[SunTzu]

We all voted against a Public Ban Thread, there's no need for it.
Oh and i've never PMed the 2 people i've banned(SlowThinker and Conmcb25) they already knew y they were banned, no big freakin deal

 

[SunTzu]

Col i suggest you get off this topic, the way that you are getting so pissy with the topic is well, pretty pathetic

 

[Ming]

A public ban thread isn't the answer. It wouldn't have changed this situation one bit. If the mod that banned the person didn't post in the private forum, the coward certainly wasn't going to post it in the public thread.

The results would have been the same... Choke still would have had to PM/Email TF to ask what is going on.

I have to agree that a public thread isn't needed... at that "other" site I post at, we have an identical attitude... not needed.

 

[Thunderfall]

What I said in my previous post is really the best defensive tactic normal posters have against moderator abuse of power. If you found you are mysteriously banned, email me immediately. If I don't see the ban logged, you will be unbanned.

This way the moderator who abused his/her power risked demotion to ban an innocent poster for just 1 or 2 days (not worth it if you ask me). It's easier to find out who did it also if it's reported promtly.

 

[Lucky]

The more severe problem here is IMO that some of your staff don´t seem to be honest towards you, TF.
I think that´s also what col was partly refering to.

If it was a mistake and/or the mod who did it already told you the exact circumstances, then you should/would have closed this thread and given a final explanation or a statement.
Since this is not the case, at least one of your mods is not only dishonest to us and choke, but even towards you. And as some have correctly stated, this creates an atmosphere unfavorable to CFC. If even the admin cannot trust his mods, then something is seriously flawed.
Especially since this is an ideal basis for future discussions, unfair allegations and uneasy questions.

As a normal member I wouldn´t take this single occurance as a reason to question the whole system. But as admin I would surely question the loyalty of my mods.

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by SunTzu
Col i suggest you get off this topic, the way that you are getting so pissy with the topic is well, pretty pathetic

As is the way that you just don't care.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by SunTzu
Col i suggest you get off this topic, the way that you are getting so pissy with the topic is well, pretty pathetic

This attitude is precisely the problem. Not caring about what happened. Col has brought up some excellent points, questions that have no easy answer, and your response is to tell him to get the hell out. What that solves is beyond me. Neither can you just assume it was an accident, as disorganizer wants to do. I think it has been firmly established in this thread that an accident is highly unlikely. Therefore you have a problem: it's called abuse of moderator powers. Your attempt to bully a person wanting answers is just an extension of this problem.

 

[SunTzu]

I'm not bullying anyone, trust me. I just hate people who have to be anal about everything, its not like this is some White House Scandal, i say go complain about something more important

 

[Napoleon Hitler]

I think the biggest problem is that moderators are allowed to ban people. They should be forced to give evidence to TF, and let him do the banning. Maybe TF could select a few, and I mean like one or two other mods, to be "supermods" that could actually ban people too. So anytime a moderator found action that they thought merited banning, they would have to show the evidence to TF or a supermod, then TF or the supermod would ban the person if they thought the person deserved a banning.

 

[Ming]

Well in the grand scheme of life, this isn't really important.

However, in terms of this site, it is an important scandal.

Some gutless coward banned somebody for absolutely no legal reason, and is now afraid to stand up and admit it.

That's a juicy scandal if you ask me

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by Napoleon Hitler
I think the biggest problem is that moderators are allowed to ban people.

Your completely wrong here, friend.

They should be forced to give evidence to TF, and let him do the banning.

If this place had 10 posters, maybe that would be workable, as it once was that way, but with 20,000, it's ludicrous.

Maybe TF could select a few, and I mean like one or two other mods, to be "supermods" that could actually ban people too.

Again, a silly idea, we WILL find out who did this, count on it, and not be making the staff powerless to protect the site.
What your suggesting is akin to telling the police only a few can arrest if a false arrest has been made, a BAD idea.

So anytime a moderator found action that they thought merited banning, they would have to show the evidence to TF or a supermod, then TF or the supermod would ban the person if they thought the person deserved a banning.

The staff ALREADY is required to show proff of banning, nobody takes anybody's word for it.

I'm affraid your cures would be WORSE then the desease!

 

[Napoleon Hitler]

Alcibiaties of Athenae, you just don't wanna let go of your banning rod.

 

[Ming]

I have to agree with AoA... Mods NEED the power to ban ON THE SPOT. The way it is set up now, they are required to post it and give reasons. That's more than a good enough system.

That is... unless some wimp decides not to post it

The whole thing is based on a level of trust between the Owner and the mods he has put in place. They support him, and he supports them. And it works great.

Unfortunately, it seems like one of them has broken that trust.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Ming is correct, somebody did something wrong, and it will come out, these things ALWAYS do.

 

[col]

Originally posted by SunTzu
Col i suggest you get off this topic, the way that you are getting so pissy with the topic is well, pretty pathetic

I'm sorry you feel that way. Switch and Ainwood have answered you eloquently and I won't add to what they have said.

Yes it would be nice to be able to just drop the whole thing, forget about it and carry on. But that's not the right thing to do. Does it matter? Not in the larger scheme of things. Does it matter here? Yes I think it does.

I repeat.
Mods here do an excellent job. They need the power to ban on the spot. They also need to be publicly accountable. and they need to be protected against unwarrented accusations and the current aura of suspicion.

A public ban thread isn't the answer. It wouldn't have changed this situation one bit. If the mod that banned the person didn't post in the private forum, the coward certainly wasn't going to post it in the public thread. The results would have been the same... Choke still would have had to PM/Email TF to ask what is going on.

That misses the point. The banned person would know they weren't on the list and could take action immediately.
Everyone else would know who was banned, when and why with considerable deterrence to future offenders. I would expect the number of bans to decrease very rapidly if all could see the results of certain actions. Mods would have to justify their reasons publicly - a one line entry in a thread would be fine. No problem in the vast majority of cases I'm sure.

I have to agree that a public thread isn't needed... at that "other" site I post at, we have an identical attitude... not needed.

With respect, asking mods to vote for this is like asking the police to decide whether they want to fill out the paperwork for a crime . Yes its more work for them. But it builds more fairness into the system and it protects them too.

A system can be built on trust until that trust is betrayed then we realise trust is not enough.