Which CIV IV, V and VI civs should become mainstays?

[IgorS]

So, the question is simple: which of the civs that made their debuts in Civ IV, V and VI should become mainstays of the series and appear in every future game?

 

[Vahnstad]

Definitely:
Khmer
Indonesia
Mali / (Songhai)

voted for the following civs as well:
Sweden
Denmark
Ethiopia
Brazil
Poland
Siam
Venice
Kongo

possibly also (and more at the end of the game)
Assyria
Morocco
Nubia
Macedon?
Polynesia
Huns
Shoshone
Scythia (but next time, prefer Mongolia)

I don't want those to ever see again:
Holy Romans
Australia
Native Americans

 

[Guandao]

I didn't vote for the Holy Romans, Native Americans (blob), Huns, Polynesians (blob), Shoshone, Venetians, Australians, Macedonians, Norwegians, or the Scythians.

Holy Romans because they are redundant with Germany and France in the game. If Charlemagne must be a leader, it should be as leader of the Franks.
Native Americans (blob) because I don't want those culturally/linguistically diverse peoples lumped into one Civ.
Huns because I find them generic as a Civ, and they are only famous because of Attila. Plus Broken Chuvash!
Polynesians (blob) because I prefer having the Maori or Hawaii instead.
Shoshone because I'm not too interested in the Great Basin natives becoming a Civ.
Venetians because I prefer an Italian civilization.
Australians because they are too recent, and with a similar culture to Britain. Many people here dislike Aboriginals becoming a Civ, but I would actually prefer them instead.
Macedonians because Alexander should stay a Greek leader instead of having his own Civ.
Norwegians because I think they were not as important as Sweden and Denmark.
Scythians because of a lack of information about them. They are the Huns' replacement in Civ6. And Tomyris will always be their leader.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Voted for Khmer, Mali (not Songhai), Ethiopia, Assyria, and Indonesia
I would include Macedon if that was the only way to get Alexander.
Also my vote goes to Austria which isn't on the list.

 

[Xandinho]

I voted for those I am most convinced to have become mainstays: Mali/Songhai, Ethiopia, Brazil, Indonesia and Poland. I could have voted for Khmer as well, but I realized that it is not a pillar since it was not included in Civ5, but I would love to have Khmer in every game of the serie

I'm sure a Viking nation is a pillar, although I think its representative will vary in each version of the series, between Denmark and Norway.

I would like Morocco, Assyria, Polynesia, Siam, Venice (or as Italian civ) and Sweden to become mainstays in the series as well, but I'm not very convinced that we will see them all in all games in the series

I really like Nubia (its inclusion was a surprise, but I'm very satisfied), but I have the feeling that it will not become a pillar. Same for Kongo.

Australia is debatable, although the series has many Australian players, the negative repercussion of the inclusion of its was very large. But I still think we'll see Australia again, even if I'm not sure.

I definitely do not see how Shoshone, Huns, Holy Rome, Scythia, Native Americans, and Macedon would become mainstays.

 

[IgorS]

Voted for Khmer, Mali (not Songhai), Ethiopia, Assyria, and Indonesia
I would include Macedon if that was the only way to get Alexander.
Also my vote goes to Austria which isn't on the list.

Austria isn't on the list because it made its debut in Civ III.

 

[IgorS]

I say this:
No:
Holy Romans - not a civ
Native Americas - not a civ, but a collection of civs
Huns - no city list
Polynesians - not a civ, but a collection of civs
Shoshone - no city list, not interesting enough
Macedonians - basically Greeks, should be part of Greece
Scythians - no good city list

Yes, but not as mainstays:
Moroccans - an interesting civ to be included sometimes
Venetians - not as a super-state

Yes:
Khmer - an important South-East Asian civ
Malians/Songhai - an important African civ
Ethiopians - the most important sub-Saharan African civ
Assyrians - a super important ancient civ
Brazilians - an important modern civ, plus South America
Danes - not just Vikings, you know
Indonesians - another area of the world that should be in
Poles - we need more representation for east-central Europe
Thai - not in the vanilla version, but another must have
Swedes - a Scandinavian civ that was a superpower
Australians - a nice modern later EP civ
Kongolese - a very important civ in Africa
Norwegians - the ultimate Viking/Medieval civ
Nubians - an important ancient civ with ties to Egypt

 

[Ferocitus]

To include many dozens of unique Amerindian cultures is just not viable, so I voted
for the North American Indians (as a blob civ).
Either Firaxis would have to choose a few random ones, as they did in Civ5, or
lump a few together. Either way, someone will be unhappy, or even insulted.

Rich Hall's delightful documentary, "Inventing the Indian", used "Generokee" to
highlight the collective ignorance about the uniqueness of the cultures.
Maybe we should embrace it too, not as an insult to American indigenous people,
but as a way of admitting, up front, that it is impossible do proper justice to
the variety of their many nations.
Or just pick one or two, as before. I dunno.

 

[Guandao]

To include many dozens of unique Amerindian cultures is just not viable, so I voted
for the North American Indians (as a blob civ).
Either Firaxis would have to choose a few random ones, as they did in Civ5, or
lump a few together. Either way, someone will be unhappy, or even insulted.

Rich Hall's delightful documentary, "Inventing the Indian", used "Generokee" to
highlight the collective ignorance about the uniqueness of the cultures.
Maybe we should embrace it too, not as an insult to American indigenous people,
but as a way of admitting, up front, that it is impossible do proper justice to
the variety of their many nations.
Or just pick one or two, as before. I dunno.

It's doesn't show that anyone voted for the Native American blob civ. Did you change your mind?

 

[Ferocitus]

It's doesn't show that anyone voted for the Native American blob civ. Did you change your mind?

No, I lost it. Found a spare which was smart enough to click on Cast Vote.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Austria isn't on the list because it made its debut in Civ III.

I didn't realize this. Still I think they should anyway after missing one.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Obviously like many I didn't vote for Danes/Norwegians/Swedes because it's so hard to pick.

And I didn't vote for Ethiopia because I don't like Zara Jacob as a person. I'd rather have Aksum led by Makeda instead of Nubia.

 

[chronoturner]

I'll vote for Khmer, Mali/Songhai, Ethiopia, Brazil, Indonesia, and Poles. These are mostly from my own personal interests, but I think they were interesting civilizations in life and thus deserve spots as mainstays due to uniqueness and flavour that can be found in each of them.

 

[halfhalfharp]

I think culturally/historically unique civs should have a stay on its own, as they can represent the regional uniqueness of the culture.
Personally I divide them into this in terms of degree of culturally/historically interwining:

Scandinavia:
1 from Norway/Danes/Sweden

These three are interchangeable and is also acceptable to exist as a blob, considering their shared history and similarity in culture.

South east Asia:
1 from Siam/ Khmer / Vietnam
1 from Indonesia/Malay

Khmer and Siam are kind of sister culture in history. Vietnam was heavily influenced by chinese but it also had influence from Khmer. So one of the three should be mainstayed to present that southern Asian culture.
Indonesia and Malay, while they are very similar, are culturally different from the Khmer/Siam/Vietnam collection so there should be a pick between the two

I dont have proper knowledge to comment on the others so I just stop here haha.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I didn't realize this. Still I think they should anyway after missing one.

Not that Austria was playable or even visible. They were included in the game files, but you essentially had to disable another civ if you wanted to make them playable, since Civ3 had a maximum of 31 playable civs, and Austria was #32.

 

[Phrozen]

I think culturally/historically unique civs should have a stay on its own, as they can represent the regional uniqueness of the culture.
Personally I divide them into this in terms of degree of culturally/historically interwining:

Scandinavia:
1 from Norway/Danes/Sweden

These three are interchangeable and is also acceptable to exist as a blob, considering their shared history and similarity in culture.

In the viking era? Sure. During the 17th century? Not at all. Sweden was a military superpower in the Baltic sea.

 

[halfhalfharp]

In the viking era? Sure. During the 17th century? Not at all. Sweden was a military superpower in the Baltic sea.

Yep, that's right. But what I am trying to mean is that, one of them should remain as a mainstay, while adding another of the three is a matter of extra choice.
And I don't want to see them all three separated in the game, due to their high similarities.

 

[Krajzen]

Very cool poll.

I am also positively surprised by devastating 92% of Indonesia. I agree, Indonesia should be mainstay due to sheer size, uniqueness, geographical balance, spice trade, sophistication of its civilizations and architecture

Other civs I voted for:

Brazil - size, uniqueness, "memetic richness", geographic balance, cultural power

Morocco - I am kind of disappointed it is only moderately popular. Islamic Maghreb is one of parts of the world with really rich heritage, it was very important in medieval to early modern era (Moors, Cordoba, Andalusia, Berbers) and on top of that it is one of very few "definitely islamic" civs doable in this franchise.

Mali - IMO the most spectacular civilisation of West Africa, also it has clear gameplay focus and good leader choices.

Ethiopia - the oldest Subsaharan culture after Nubia, but alive unlike it; one of the oldest countries in the world; and one of the first to adopt Christianity; citadel resisting ovewhelming Muslim influence for centuries; the only survivor of colonialism in Africa; the battle of Adwa; Lalibela, obelisks and other UNESCO sites... The only reason I could consider not making it mainstay is presence of Somali civilization instead. Thats why Ethiopia is potentially lowest here.

I didn't vote for Khmer and Poland because
- Khmer can IMO rotate with Burma, Siam and Vietnam
- Poland can rotate with Bohemia, Hungary, Romania, Hungary etc

 

[Xandinho]

I am surprised to see how Scandinavian countries are unpopular.

I think we should always have a Viking nation. Denmark and Norway have few votes, I'm assuming people expect them are rotating with each other. But Sweden? I would particularly love to have the Swedes in every edition of the game.

 

[Havendish]

I didn't vote for Kongo, should be in every other game, but not a mainstay.
I'd prefer Ashanti, Zimbabwe or Dahomey from Africa instead of them, or rotating with Kongo if not possible to include them all.

Voted for all Scandinavian civs on the list, Viking contributions to the history of civilization tend to be minimized quite often. Need more representation out of Eastern/Central and South Eastern Europe. Russia , Macedon and Poland aren't enough. Macedon should always be separate and have Alexander and/or his father Phillip as the leader.

Some of my proposals for Eastern/Central/South-Eastern and Caucasian Civs:

Bulgaria, Yugoslavia (or only Serbia), Czechoslovakia- or (Great) Moravia, Hungary-should be a mainstay-alone or as Austro-Hungary with Austria, Khazars-Hebrew faith, Ukraine/Kiyevan Rus'- with their famous Ukrainian Kozaks as UU, Sarmatians- female warrior horse archers!!!, Goths (Ostrogoths), Wends (or just the Veleti), Lithuania-was huge although not centralized, Prussia (Teutons and Jaegers), Crimean Khanate, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacia/Romania - classical era Dacia to modern Romania, Moldavia (Hospodar - leader's title), Colchis-ancient.

Austria should be on the list becasue it deserves to be there.