Which Civilization Would You Live In?

[MagisterCultuum]

The grigori as a nation are very religiously tolerant. Perhaps the most (well, other than Kuriotates or Dural, of course). The only thing they are not tolerant of is having a "state" religion. So building large public temples, or having a mandatory religion tax/ tithing would be rather prohibited. However, individual or loosely organized group worship would be completely tolerated. And, I suppose that if a community became rich enough to build a temple with their own money, as long as they didn't feel compelled to lord some level of power over their neighbors, it would be tolerated.

Sort of. Cassiel himself is very tolerant of those who want the freedom to worship as they see fit without forcing their views on others, but a lot of Grigori commoners are recent refugees from theocracies and tend to be extremely suspicious of anyone religious. There is no legal ramification for personal piety, but in many Grigori communities your neighbors may not fully embrace you until you've spent a few nights getting wasted in the local tavern while blaspheming every deity imaginable. (Heavy drinking is very common among the Grigori. It is implied that even Cassiel may be an alcoholic.)

The vast majority of the Grigori are distrustful of the Luonnatar and don't really want them around, despite knowing they haven't done nearly enough for their laws to allow doing anything to stop them.

In addition to not giving public support to religions, I believe that the Grigori tend to prosecute those who use fear of divine punishment to scare people into giving donations. Selling indulgences would get one arrested for fraud. Calling for the persecution of those of other faiths would get one arrested for disturbing the peace and inciting violence.

The Grigori aren't the sort to do anything with mandatory taxes, much less support a religious establishment. They tend to be fairly extreme libertarians in that regard. They are an aristocracy rather than a democracy, but their aristocrats have no special privileges. They can keep the appointment for life (although I suspect that petitions could force bad leaders to resign), but it is never hereditary. The local lords are often chosen by lot from among the most average citizens, although yeoman farmers are definitely preferred over city folk. Cassiel does not like merchants, as he thinks most of them secretly serve Mammon, and suspects that elections would make campaign contributions too important for corrupt merchants not to take over. The lords do not get a house or an income, so they need to work a regular job in additions to having the added responsibilities of acting as justices of the peace and militia leaders. They spend a lot of time running fundraisers and asking for donations. I imagine there are a lot of bake sales. The Grigori do not approve of conscription, and their soldiers tend to go AWOL a lot. Local lords likely spend a lot of time in taverns trying to convince their troops that they should show up for training (and actual battles) more often. They really don't have the logistics to wage offensive wars, but are pretty good at resisting foreign occupation.

 

[Tasunke]

That sounds pretty accurate. I'm surprised about new leaders being selected by lot, especially since such selections seem to be lifelong (other than impeachment).

while initially surprised about soldiers not showing up for battles, I suppose I could see how that would happen. Just extra work for the heroes eh? hehe.

In any event Magister, have you voted for which Nation you would most prefer to live in?

 

[cypher132]

Wow. I was trying to give you something to do and we were blessed with a Magister post.

 

[nzk13]

That sounds pretty accurate. I'm surprised about new leaders being selected by lot, especially since such selections seem to be lifelong (other than impeachment).

while initially surprised about soldiers not showing up for battles, I suppose I could see how that would happen. Just extra work for the heroes eh? hehe.

In any event Magister, have you voted for which Nation you would most prefer to live in?

Amurites, obviously. His avatar is friggin' Govannon! Or maybe Govannon is his avatar? One or the other...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I believe the reason I went with Govannon is that it is the FfH specific picture that seems to fit best with the title of Great Sage, which I got when Kael added me to the great person list in game. (I used to have a great prophet avatar, but then I started to get really annoyed with myself for stupid posts which it took a while to realize someone else had made. All the default avatars were too common and can lead to that problem.)

I have no special affinity towards the Amurites. (My disappointment with the Age of Ice scenario made me like them even less.) I suppose most of you see me as being pretty close to their Patron Oghma, God of Memory and Arcane Lore, but I personally see myself as more like Danalin. The modern Lanun aren't close enough to the nature of their sleeping patron god though, and the Aifons are gone.


If forced to choose right now I'd likely go with living among the Elohim. For those who do see so much Oghma in me, it may be worth noting that the Elohim are the oldest nation in Erebus and that they still preserve the memory of lore that was already ancient before Kylorin was even born. They really are the most arcane race, if we use the term in a broader sense and don't limit ourselves to speaking of sorcery. Danalin and Sirona were also extremely close before his slumber. I'm not active enough to go out and show compassion as much as those fully devoted to the spirit sphere are, but I can still respect and support them. I often come up as having a chaotic good alignment but am lazy rather than militant, so I'm much better with the Elohim than the Mercurians. The holiness of Elohim neighbors is better protection against hostile demons anyway. While the nation may be founded by followers of Sirona, Einion Logos insisted on a degree of religious tolerance nearly rivaling that of Cassiel.


The main reasons I didn't say Grigori are that Cassiel's death likely spells their downfall, and that I'm not a fan of alcohol.

Living with the Luchuirp could be quite nice too, but I imagine their facilities aren't really built for one of my stature. I'd also have to first make sure that those persistent rumors about dwarves lacking sexual dimorphism are false. My dislike of alcohol could come into play again here too, as could by dislike of pork.



@Tasunke:
Technically I don't have proof for Grigori nobles being chosen by lot, but it would make sense to me. We do know they are appointed rather than elected and that Cassiel wants the rulers to all be average members of society. We know Cassiel himself did not want his people in any way dependent on him for governance, so he does not do the appointing himself. Allowing the highest nobles free reign in appointing themselves and all their underlings seems like it is just asking for corruption. We know that the Grigori are nothing like a modern representative democracy/republic, but their ideals seem to fit pretty well with those of Ancient Athenian direct democracy, which relied on allotment to fill most offices and ostracism to vacate them. In my imagination, the appointment process for the Grigori doesn't involve rolling dice, but rather randomly throwing darts at a map (likely while drunk at a tavern) and seeing who lives and works closest to places they hit. Note that this would tend to discriminate against those who live in small, hard to hit townhouses and favor the yeomen farmers that Cassiel tends to idealize.

Also, the Adventurers are the most likely to not show up for duty. They tend to be fearless enough that that if they miss an actual battle it is because they found a more dangerous alternative elsewhere. It is mundane practice that they are most loathe to attend. In case you haven't figured it out, the patron god of adventurers is Tali. Tali is not a god that cares much about worship and the concept of creating an organized religion bores him, so he is more accepted by the Grigori than his siblings. A few Grigori adventurers do go so far as a strong religious devotion to the God of Air, Irresponsibility, and Fun, but this god would find it insulting for them to build him temples so near to home so they make sure his shrines are in remote, dangerous places their non religious neighbors would never see.

 

[Skarn]

The Grigori do not approve of conscription, and their soldiers tend to go AWOL a lot. Local lords likely spend a lot of time in taverns trying to convince their troops that they should show up for training (and actual battles) more often. They really don't have the logistics to wage offensive wars, but are pretty good at resisting foreign occupation.

That's pretty funny, considering they're better at achieving military victories rather than builder-type ones.

I voted for Elohim. Pacifism and preservation of knowledge is pretty much my way of life. Plus I always liked Sirona for no apparent reason and I tend to play them in most of my games.

Balseraph came close second though. Insanity is FUN.

 

[Aline]

Wouldent it be booring to sit around all day guarding some point of interest? ^^

 

[Tasunke]

Aline ... did you want to play MP? My internet is working now

 

[steampunk1880]

Lanun! Do you have any idea how much money I could make without ever setting foot on a ship simply by opening a cheap grog stand? Plus Captain Threepwood is like my idol 'n stuff.

 

[Aline]

Waaay to late, ill go to sleep now XD

 

[cypher132]

Thinking about it now, I'd be an Amurite. While I doubt I would follow the Order as Valledia does, but I would love to be able to dive into all the knowledge they have. Plus being able to use magic.

 

[Estelindis]

MC, thank you for the fascinating posts. I'm not a huge fan of alcohol myself (just don't like the taste of beer, wine, etc.), so maybe most of my Grigori neighbours would never trust me due to my never getting properly sloshed! In addition, it's probably easy to underestimate how much most of us dislike unpredictability - and Grigori society seems to have its fair share of chaos! Still, with the Grigori emphasis on freedom, art, and meritocracy, the Grigori lands seem like a great place to live - if Cassiel is still alive. (Sad to think of the end that must eventually come. That was such a heartwrenching scenario... )

 

[cypher132]

Just to clarify about Valledia. She adopted the Order to try to get the Elohim to attack the Infernals, but it didn't work, as we see in Einion's pedia entry.

 

[Tasunke]

part of the Skyrim plot will be that the Hero is the last adventurer of the grigori ... banished from Erebus by Ceridwen after the Grigori nation was destroyed, for she had prophesized that he would of eventually travelled into the well of souls and become a demon lord that envied her power and managed to kill Ceridwen.

So yea, Ceridwen teleports the adventurer to elder scrolls. All the backstory of Skyrim that you need to know

 

[nzk13]

part of the Skyrim plot will be that the Hero is the last adventurer of the grigori ... banished from Erebus by Ceridwen after the Grigori nation was destroyed, for she had prophesized that he would of eventually travelled into the well of souls and become a demon lord that envied her power and managed to kill Ceridwen.

So yea, Ceridwen teleports the adventurer to elder scrolls. All the backstory of Skyrim that you need to know

What does the Elder Scrolls series have to do with FfH?

 

[Tasunke]

I was being silly

 

[CurseUppl]

Chose the tree hugging elves.

Invade enemy lands and overgrow them with ancient forest when you're done, seems pretty cool IMO. And if you get invaded yourself, wage a guerilla war with treants.

Plus being immortal is kind of attractive (I assume they are, at least).

 

[Aline]

I think there are more immortal people around, then the elves, some of them not very happy about it.

 

[Tasunke]

the Elves are very long lived, Liches even more-so, Sidar even more-so, Vampires *potentially* even more-so, and Os-Gabella is absolutely immortal with no way of dying.

 

[Aline]

I think the first dwarfens are also very long lived.
Not to mention the Scions of Patria. XD