Which continent do you like to start on?

[Schloss Ritter]

I've never thought about going without irrigation before, but I suppose it could work to an advantage. Irrigation -> faster city growth -> more citizens -> more unhappiness (especially at higher difficulties) -> higher chance of civil disorder -> lost production. Besides, if you're winning by conquest, maybe your settelers are busy enough by making mines, roads, and cities all to strenghten the war machine.

If you plan on staying at war, don't go for republic (pesky senate) but rather shoot for communism or fanaticism. There's even strategys for winning while staying in desposim.

 

[Clausewitzian]

re: irrigation

It gets even better than that. Not only do I have all those benefits you mention keeping unhappiness at bay, but because I so rapidly expanded all my major growth cities now lie along the coasts and rivers of China and India, where irrigation is not an issue.

I hadn't thought of this when I did so, but expansion is the perfect solution to the irrigation problem, expand until you hit easy irrigation terrain and set up your super growth cities there.


To be honest, I'm stuck, I've completely lost focus on what I should be doing, I'm so far from my normal playstyle and am more than a little bored with the way the game has turned out so far (Oh what shall my city produce next, vans or vans?).


What would you do in ad 80, 19 cities at you disposal (the best of which can be irrigated per immediate), each garrisoned with a minimum of three military units (admittedly, mostly warriors) and possesion of Leo. You're in monarchy, researching gravity with advances every 8 turns at 70%. You have more tech than any other nation (you have Marco Polo's, Piramids and MC) and have a strategically sound position to boot covering a HUGE swath of territory (all the land between Middle East, India and China). Non of your cities posses city improvements (a first for me there as well) but there is a well placed SSC (pop=7) containing HG, KRC, Collossus and Copernicus with vans gathering for Newton. Currently you own in extortion monies circa 1550g while happily at peace with everyone (the Babylonians were exterminated in proper mongol fashion, they've respawned as Zulu's somewhere). This is your state, and the fate of the world rests in your hands.


How would you go next, o wise one, and what would your strategy be?

 

[Schloss Ritter]

Me = "o wise one"? I wouldn't go as far as saying that. I haven't really played Civ2 as much or as recently as many other members of this community seem to have. I'm really going off of my limited experience and what I've read on this site.

That being said, I suppose I'll try to give a bit more advice. Based on your current level of occupation of 3 units per city, I'd definitely shoot for Communism ASAP since it gets all the benefits of Monarchy and more (especially double the benefits of martial law and elimination of corruption).

It's unfortunate that you left the "Respawn AI Civilizations" option on. I've noticed this can make a conquest came drag on to the point of boredom. I don't think you can turn it off once a game has started, and I can't remember when it ends. It may be best to reduce a civ to one city and use spies (Communits automatically get Veteran Spies) to sabotage developments to keep them from re-expanding. Sounds like you have plenty of cash to buy enemy units as well.

Sounds like the game has bogged down at this point, but spend a bit of time whittling down at your biggest opponents to set yourself up for a quick conquest victory once the Respawns option expires.

Or turn around now and use that SSC to head for a Diplomacy based Space victory... but it sounds like you've been down that road before.

 

[Clausewitzian]

You're right, I have almost exclusively played Spaceship games. My knowledge in world conquest is next to nil. I'm also normally an isolationalist keeping diplomacy to a minimum, so extorting my neighbours has been a first for me here as well.

I've been operating under the assumption of going for a spaceship game. Opting for world conquest would make the game a lot more interesting, especially now I've layed the framework for a spaceship victory. Find out if a strong tech engine is worthwhile for conquest.

A question that immediately pops to mind is "how do you know an AI civ is down to its last city?" so I can stop attacking and prevent respawning.

Let's see, two new must have wonders to add to my list. Magellan's, I'm very poorly placed to win this in the tech race, but it's now become a must have. And Liberty, to cover my n00b ass (as far as anybody playing at Deity can be considered n00b) since I don't yet know what government type to favor and may need to experiment. I'm increasingly tempted to ditch the warriors and switch to republic anyway. Waiting for a Leo upgrade will just take too darn long. So far I've never understood why some people make warriors like there's no tomorrow. Don't they suffocatingly hold your development in check?

Normally, I'd favor going after the weak civs first, while they're still relatively easy to conquer. Not that I have much choice here. Between me and the soft Russians/Vikings lie the ever expanding Spanish. Anyway, lots of stuff for me to ponder.

 

[Schloss Ritter]

I was under the assumption you were already going for a conquest victory since you've been attacking neighbors. But then again, in my space games I always try to be peaceful to a fault I guess.

The number of cities an AI civ has can be seen most easily if you have an embassy established, so get some diplomats or spies out there, use Marco Polo (expires with Communism), and/or shoot for the UN (high tech). Foreign cities can be seen through your Foreign Minister (F3), clicking Check Intelligence, then clicking Cities. There are other ways to work around this process, but I haven't found them as reliable or easy.

I've never found Magellan's that useful - by the time I build it, I've got fast enough sea units already. Besides, it sounds like you're running a mostly land empire in the biggest landmass in the world, and you don't need to cross water to reach your biggest rival (Spain). Liberty is much less useful when using the Odeo Year trick (search this website), and you probably won't be needing to research Democracy except to get Espionage. I'm strongly suggesting you avoid Republic or Democracy while at conquest until some later game when you have more experience with conquest and manipulating your opponents into being the agressor (thus tying the Senate's hands). Also you *will* have unhappiness issues if you switch to Republic at this point. Never underestimate the power of Martial Law - which is why I reccomended Communism.

I would really have the patience and build Leo's since manually upgrading all your units will probably take even longer. Your Warriors will soon advance to much better units on their own with the help of Leo's. Just be sure to delay Automobiles as long as possible. Also, shoot for all the happiness wonders you think you'll need to keep those larger cities in check. Those that cover all your cities are nice, and J.S. Bach is nice on a large continent such as Asia. This will lessen the need to ever build those pesky City Improvements you're trying to avoid.

Getting the weak Civs out of your way is nice if they don't Respawn, but we've already covered that. You may have to manipulate them into declaring war on Spain if possible. That way they spend their energies attacking each other, instead of building up for an attack on you. Use alliances to your advantage, then break them when you're dominating and are ready to finish your "allies" off. If you don't stop Spain from expanding now, they'll just keep getting stronger.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Non of your cities posses city improvements (a first for me there as well) but there is a well placed SSC (pop=7) containing HG, KRC, Collossus and Copernicus with vans gathering for Newton.

Your science city should get all the improvements. You can double its science output before Newton by building a library and a university. It even gets better after Newton. Your science city should not be size 7 at this stage of the game, it should be larger.

 

[Ace]

Also, shoot for all the happiness wonders you think you'll need to keep those larger cities in check. Those that cover all your cities are nice, and J.S. Bach is nice on a large continent such as Asia.

J.S. Bach is good in all you cities, not just on the continent its built on. This is a must-have wonder in Democracy.

 

[Schloss Ritter]

J.S. Bach is good in all you cities, not just on the continent its built on. This is a must-have wonder in Democracy.

According to the Civilopedia, it's supposed to work only on the continent it's built on. If it work everywhere, I guess this must be another of those beneficial bugs I wasn't aware of.

 

[Ace]

yes, the civilopedia is wrong on JSB. It works on all your cities, period. Basically, in Civ2, the wonders can be put in three distinct groups: 1: the ones that effect all your cities, JSB, Hoover's, Pyramids etc, 2: ones that effect only the city they are built in, copes, Newton's, colosseus, and 3: the ones that effect your civ in general, as opposed to individual cities, like Marco Polo, UN, and the Tower.

 

[Clausewitzian]

Hey Schloss,

I have so never made use of the foreign cities lookup thing I'd forgotten it existed. Thanks for reminding me.

re Magellans, given the size of the world map, the Atlantic and Pacific oceans should be huge barriers to cross. Since the name of the game is global conquest, Magellans matters.

As to Spain being my biggest rival, so what. It's the second easiest empire for me to reach. Once I start carving it up, it isn't going to be my biggest rival for long. AI civs in the americas however, will be able to develop undisturbed into my biggest rivals in the future. I have to plan for that.

I'm fairly comfy about waging wars in democracy or republic, I've done so in the past, even though my objectives were limited strategic wars. Lol, I know all about unhappiness problems etc. In limited conflicts, senate interference is rarely a campaign breaker. Besides, as you zoom ahead in science, the AI's tend to fall over themselves trying to break treaties.

My n00bness consists in not yet knowing how to handle the loss in development that a long term major war brings, rather than in its conduct. It is for this reason that I've stuck to limited scale wars in the past. You start to fall behind the civs you aren't at war with.

re Leo's: I've already got it. I know its value, I even delayed constuction of MC at a time when my empire was falling apart with unhappiness to win the race against the Spanish (their having it would have been a nightmare). It's waiting around for me to research the techs that upgrade my units and are at present low priority that I have no patience with.

Don't worry about wonders. I'm fairly competent in the wonder department. For instance, an advantage of SoL is that you can bypass your senate whenever you so wish and so time your attack when you want to instead of waiting around and having to plan making forcing it to happen. In civII you have more than enough on your plate without adding to it. It's a laziness advantage I like to build if I know I intend to be the aggressor in future wars, makes me more flexible in my choices. That increases my enjoyment of the game, and therein lies its value.

At present I'm stuck with monarchy 'cause the hit in production (my cities are still small and I intend to build an army of settlers) outweighs the benefits of extra trade. The moment I feel the balance has shifted, I'm moving to rep/dem. Reorganizing my empire to make that happen sooner should probably be my top priority, while in the background I prepare for war. I'm looking forward to that war. Using an army consisting of diplomats is going to be another first. Sounds like a plan to me!

 

[Clausewitzian]

Ardi,

By ad 80 my SSC has a temple, a library, a marketplace and is building a uni. It is the only city I have with city improvements. I didn't state this before due to brevity.

And you're dead right on the population department.

One of the reasons I stopped for a rethink and worried about my lack of focus was because of that. I feared I was dropping the ball in other departments as well.

Thanks for the advice. I will be rigorously dealing with the matter.

 

[Sharkbait]

By ad 80 my SSC has a temple, a library, a marketplace and is building a uni.

I would change the uni to an aqueduct and build that, then get into Republic if you're not already there so you can grow the city by celebrations. Check oedo years though for when to revolt.

 

[Clausewitzian]

AD 820

All is peacefull. A while back I captured the spanish city of Cordoba, a target of oppertunity as proof of concept, but am still at peace with the Spanish. I'm currently at 22 cities.

My SSC has a pop of 18, growing every turn and is suffering pollution problems. I've cranked science back to 20%, so now have discoveries a mere every 8 turns (researching explosives). I've achieved all the wonders I wanted to achieve, including SoL and Magellan, and would rather none of them expire anytime soon.

The yanks got Sun Tzu's, won't help them though. I'm currently in Republic, planning on going to Democracy thanks to SoL, which I've just built. My army's been reduced to one unit per city.

Working on getting a ship chain going to America. Another first for me. Soon, I'll be helping the yanks, even. Ah, but it's the silence before the storm.

My intentions are evil and conquest bound, though you wouldn't think it. Heheheh. I know I've been slow and have had difficulty optimizing everything. Still, trying all these firsts is a lot of fun.

 

[EquinoxOmega]

recently I've have started at Mexico and set all other player to Eurasia and Africa. This is quiet interesting: you can build an Empire on America, Australie, Greenland and other Islands and make contact with other later.

usually I prefere to start somewhere in the Mediterrenian Area.