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Which three wonders of the world is jou best ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gedas
  • Start date Start date
1. Pyramids
2. Marco Polo's Embasy
3. Copernicus Observatory

[This message has been edited by Atreidis_42o (edited August 17, 2001).]
 
for me
1. Pyramids ( i push science)
2. Leonardos workshop
3. Seti/Isaac Newtons/Copernicus ( i am usually fundamentalist)
4. Magellans expediiton? the one with the caravel.....
i have few large cities and research like there is no tomorrow
 
Pyramids are primarily about growth, not science--although one can lead to the other. Pyramids are good if you plan to have LOTS of cities--it will help each new city grow, since it will have a built-in granary....

If you're all about science, too, then fundy is NOT the way to go (unless you have so much trade that the "halved science" modifier is more than overcome by it). Democracy is best for science, by far....
 
Being a science/trade fanatic, I always go for the wonders that aids these (Colossus, Copernicus, Isaac's College, and SETI), and build a superscience city.

The ones I go for after that are:

1. Leo's Workshop
2. Mike's Chapel
3. Apollo Program

And then:

1. Hoover Dam
2. Women's Sufferage
3. United Nations

------------------
"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg
 
Top Three Wonders:

1) Hoover Dam
2) Michaelangeo's Chapel
3(tie) Marco Polo's Embassy
3(tie) Statue of Liberty
3(tie) SETI

Discussing some of the wonders most often listed by others:

Pyramids: Growth is too fast to keep contented cities at Diety level. Also, when you eventually capture this wonder, you have a very nice 'granary sale' and pocket 60 gold x # of granaries you built over the game. Good savings account!

Leo's: I always let the AI have this one. Rookie dragoons die rapidly against veteran pikemen in fortresses or behind city walls. Having to build my own engineers gives me incentive to found new cities with the existing settlers.

Lighthouse: Would be nice if more than 3 units (trireme, caravel, ironclad) could get some benefit. Expires on exactly the wrong technology. A loaded veteran Frigate could be a real, self-contained threat if employed before metallurgy's coastal fortress was available.

My two cents. As has been noted, everyone has their own style. Cheers!

 
Pyramids
Mike's
Leo

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I have a few questions, what do the Pyramids do?

In my opinion, Leonardo's Workshop is very useful
second would have to be Adam Smith's
third would have to be Michealangelo's Chapel
Very tough decision for third since theirs so many others!
i think fourth would have to be Hoover dam though if not third!
 
oh, and another question, how exactly do you keep nukes out of the game? Thanks!
 
How can you stop someone from building the Manhattan Project or discovering Rocketry?
 
Kill them.

Seriously, you can stop the Manhattan Project by sabotaging their production with a spy or capturing the city building it so it is never made.

To stop them from getting rocketry, you probably do have to actually kill them, or at least keep them in a form of government (like fundamentalism) that their science would never get that good.

Other than that, as soon as someone starts to build Manhattan and you can't stop them, be sure you start to build SDI's.
 
How about building Manhattan in a size 1 city.
And then disband it. Has anyone tried it?
I never have modern day wars so I build it just for the points. In fact I have only ever been nuked once.
 
Originally posted by LeBigMec:
How about building Manhattan in a size 1 city.
And then disband it.
Once it has been built the genie is out of the bottle and nuke are allow to those with the techs even if the project is later destroyed.

 
Wonders work best cumulatively. The best combinations are:

The so-called “one-city” wonders: the Colossus, the Copernicus Observatory, Isaac Newton’s College and possibly Shakespeare’s Theatre in a well-placed city with minimal corruption; with enough trade, your city will generate more science than every other combined, allowing perhaps two advances per turn.

The “happiness” wonders: the Hanging Gardens (a must; when obsolete in the industrial epoch, improvise with the Cure for Cancer), Michelangelo’s Chapel and J.S. Bach’s Cathedral. I usually obtain these, rushing research towards Democracy and building the Statue of Liberty and ultimately Women’s Suffrage; pacifism/size issues no longer become a problem with a democracy and you can raise the science rate and shift your specialists to scientists.

The “naval” wonders: the Lighthouse and Magellan’s expedition. Research the Steam Engine (prerequisites: Physics and Invention) without discovering Magnetism (which makes the Lighthouse obsolete). Combined, an Ironclad will intrinsically have a movement rate of 7 and an attack/defense strength of 6 (the problem is, they don’t last very long due to the advents of Magnetism and Electricity). They can often kill veteran Riflemen behind City Walls.

---
Leonardo’s Workshop, Adam Smith’s Trading Company, Hoover Dam and the SETI Program are probably the best stand-alone wonders in the game. They are essential in modernizing your cities/military.

Production, including that of Caravans, is a problem with constructing wonders, so there are some that I tend to eschew:

The Pyramids (my first priority is the Colossus; initially, I haven't the production and am intent on eight-city expansion. Granaries are much less effective than appending settlers to cities and/or "We Love the King Day")
The Oracle (it makes a good substitute for the Hanging Gardens, but otherwise, a waste of early production)
The Great Library (can be replaced by trading technologies)
Sun Tzu’s War Academy (it still won't eliminate the need for Barracks)
King Richard’s Crusade (by the time I complete all 300 shields without caravan intervention, I've discovered Industrialization!)
The Eiffel Tower (a good score-booster, but little else)
 
All of them really-each plays a large part in the game and each has its effect on your civ and others. But fr my favorite.....
1) pyramids
2)mike's
3)adam's

there are many i try to get-but i have my favorite in each stage of the game ex...
In the begining the 3 most important are great library, pyramids, great wall-i try for those 3
then on second stage of game i try for the 3 best of that , and so on, and so on

this way i have my best 3 from every age [dance]
SINISTER
 
For each wonder, I think, you need to ask yourself several questions as to its utility. The "allow a build" wonders like Apollo and Manhattan are different, of course - they aren't the same as other wonders. Disclaimer: I play SP only.

Do I need to build this wonder, or can I capture it?

Every wonder can be captured to provide its effects for the capturing power. The problem is, some wonders that CAN be captured probably SHOULD not be. The best example is the Colossus/Copernicus'/Isaac Newton's combination. It is possible to capture these wonders, but if they are not all in the Super Science City, you lose a great deal of their stacking effects. So building these should be a high priority if you intend to play with a Super Science City, since it is highly unlikely that the AI will build an SSC for you. Shakespeare's Theatre is also a wonder that you could capture, but you probably should not. It is much better for you to control which of your cities builds Shakespeare's Theatre, based on several factors. Count also in this must-build category wonders like Lighthouse, which you could capture but probably won't in the time frame that you to.

Does this wonder have a unique effect?

This really tends to matter more on how good the unique effect is rather than if the unique effect is that good. For example, you could avoid Women's Suffrage by building Police Stations in all your cities, so that's not a unique effect. The Eiffel Tower does have a unique effect - it's just not that good. However, there are key wonders with unique effects. J.S. Bach's Cathedral, for example, affects every city despite what it tells you, and makes two unhappy citizens content AFTER unhappiness from units in a Representative government is figured, the only global wonder to do so, and the only way to achieve this effect in the game. Adam Smith's Trading Company lets you get a lot of key improvements for 0 maintenance - again, there is no other way to do this.

If it doesn't have a unique effect, would it hurt too much to do it the non-wonder way?

This may sound like a different way of asking the question above, however, there is a slight difference. Each wonder that simulates improvements saves you gold and shields, for example. For example, Michelangelo's Chapel saves you 160 shields, 3 gold per turn, and most importantly, a key period of time in each city once you've built it. This is a good deal - 3 gold per turn, 160 shields, is a significant savings when you multiply it by number of cities. Contrast Pyramids, which saves you 60 shields per city (if you choose to build it - a Granary is not as necessary as a Cathedral), 1 gold per turn (0 with Adam Smith's) and a smaller amount of time for each city (again, assuming you want to build it in each city). Putting Granaries in each city you want them in isn't too harsh, while building Cathedrals in every city is significant. Statue of Liberty isn't unique (as long as one knows and uses the Oedo years) but for most people who prefer Democracy, it comes with the Democracy advance anyway, and so doesn't really improve on doing it with the wonder.

How soon does this wonder expire?

Obviously, you want to get your hands on the never-expires wonders first. But when you don't have that choice, always consider how soon the wonder expires, and the importance of the advance which expires it. Oracle, for example, has a great effect - but keeping it unexpired forces you to pass up J.S. Bach's Cathedral, a far more powerful wonder. Great Wall gives you a worthwhile improvement - who doesn't like City Walls? - but pops after Metallurgy, which arrives fairly soon. Contrast Marco Polo's Embassy, which arrives with Trade and doesn't go away until Communism - which lets you build United Nations as a substitute right away.

Does its effect increase the longer I've had it?

This sounds odd at first, but upon closer examination, most of the wonders' effects increase depending on the length of time you've possessed it. King Richard's Crusade gets you some amount of extra production, and the earlier you build it, the more turns of extra production you get, and therefore the more total shields you gain out of the wonder. SETI saves you 3 gold per city per turn, so the longer you have it, the more gold it's effectively saved for you (among other things, see above). If its effects multiply according to length, prioritize this one to be built first (if the effect is worth it). Happiness wonders fit here, too - building Hanging Gardens gives you a longer period where you can expand cities to a larger size and/or keep luxuries down in favour of science or tax.

Does this wonder fit only one style of play, or many?

Some wonders are overall useful. Most styles of play will benefit, for example, from Hoover Dam - 200 shields and 4 gold saved per turn in each city. However, some wonders only fit certain playing styles - for example, the Lighthouse only works well if you intend to play heavily naval in an archipelago for the unsinking triremes, and later, the veteran ironclads. If it fits many play styles, it's a good reason to build that wonder; if it only fits one, only consider that wonder if that happens to be your play style.

Wonders according to these criteria (+ represents a reason to build it, - represents a reason to leave it for later):

The Colossus

+Need to build the wonder
+Unique effect
+Expires late
+Effect increases with time
+Fits all play styles


The Lighthouse

+Need to build the wonder
+Unique effect
+A decent amount of time before expiring

-Effects do not increase with time
-Fits limited number of play styles


The Great Library

+Semi-unique effect
+Fits many play styles
+Effect increases with time
+Decent amount of time before expiring

-Not too difficult to obtain techs by trading instead of building this
-Can be captured


The Oracle

+Unique effect
+Fits many play styles
+Effect increases with time

-Not too difficult to keep happiness without this
-Can be captured
-Expires FAR too quickly (Only six techs between Mysticism and Theology!)


The Great Wall

+Semi-unique effect
+Fits many play styles

-Effect does not increase over time (City Walls maintenance = 0 anyway)
-Not too hard to build City Walls in key cities instead
-Not too hard to make peace otherwise instead
-Can be captured
-Expires a little on the fast side


The Hanging Gardens

+Unique effect
+Fits many play styles
+Effect increases over time
+Expires late (Pottery to Railroad)

-Can be captured


The Pyramids

+Fits many play styles
+Effect increases with time
+Never expires

-Can be captured
-Not difficult to build granaries instead


Sun Tzu's War Academy

+Fits many play styles
+Expires late

-Can be captured
-Building a few barracks not so hard
-Effect does not increase over time


Michelangelo's Chapel

+Fits many play styles
+Never expires
+Is a lot easier than building Cathedrals
+Effect increases with time

-Can be captured


Copernicus' Observatory

+Fits many play styles
+Unique effect
+Must build
+Never expires
+Effect increases with time


Marco Polo's Embassy

+Fits many play styles
+Easier than establishing embassies
+Expires late
+Effect increases with time (used correctly)

-Can be captured


Shakespeare's Theatre

+Fits many play styles
+Unique effect
+Never expires
+Must build
+Effect increases with time


Magellan's Expedition

+Fits many play styles
+Unique effect
+Never expires

-Can be captured
-Effect does not increase with time


King Richard's Crusade

+Unique effect
+Must build
+Effect increases with time
+Decent amount of time before expiry

-Fits fewer play styles


Statue of Liberty

+Semi-unique effect
+Never expires

-Can be captured
-Fits fewer play styles
-Not too hard to have a revolution instead
-Effect does not increase with time


Leonardo's Workshop

+Unique effect
+Decent amount of time before expiry
+Effect increases over time
+Fits many play styles

-Can be captured


J.S. Bach's Cathedral

+Unique effect
+Never expires
+Effect increases over time
+Fits many play styles

-Can be captured


Adam Smith's Trading Company

+Unique effect
+Never expires
+Effect increases over time
+Fits many play styles

-Can be captured


Eiffel Tower

+Never expires

-No actual effect
-Can be captured
-Has nothing to do with play style
-Not too difficult to not care about reputation instead of building this


Isaac Newton's College

+Unique effect
+Never expires
+Fits many play styles
+Must build
+Effect increases over time


Darwin's Voyage

+Unique effect
+Never expires
+Must build
+Fits many play styles

-Effect one time only

Hoover Dam

+Never expires
+Easier than building Hydro Plants
+Fits many play styles
+Effect increases over time

-Can be captured


United Nations

+A lot easier than waiting for the hawks
+Never expires
+Unique effect
+Invaluable to all Democracy users

-Can be captured
-Worthless for non-Dems


Women's Suffrage

+Easier than building Police Stations
+Never expires
+Effect increases over time
+Invaluable for Representatives

-Can be captured
-Worthless for non-Representatives


SETI Program

+Easier than building Research Labs
+Effect increases over time
+Never expires

-Can be captured
-Fits fewer play styles


Cure for Cancer
+Unique effect
+Effect increases over time
+Never expires
+Fits all play styles

-Can be captured


My top three? Colossus, Copernicus, Newton's. I'll be able to capture all the rest I want later on (though it's unlikely I'll fail to get MC and JSB).

-Sev

Public Service Announcement: 10000 chars long(!)
 
The ones I personally go for as soon as they arrive are

1. Leo's Shop

The reason being that I tend to use military strategies and I can discover Amphibious warfare before some civs have discovered chivalry. Also, I use diplomats to take over cities later into the game and am often left with warriors, phalanxes and, god forbid, elephants. It's good to see them slowly turn into riflemen cavalry to use to my advantage :D

2. Statue of Liberty

On Deity level or others throughout the game, it is very annoying having to balance luxuries and build costly happiness improvements. By building the statue I can change to Fundy and nobody will be unhappy and I can reel in those big juicy tithes. Also, I need no more support for my military, and the tithes (sometimes coupled with capatilization) make for good taxes so I can concentrate on science. It's good to have fundy as soon as you can

3. Hoover Dam / Pyramids / Mike's chapel / SETI program

Anything that makes certain improvements unnecessary. Later on in my games, I put most of my cities on Auto-build (I often end up with LOTS of cities) and its mighty irritating to see them build research labs and cathedrals. which will require costly maintainance and take up precious time and shields which could be used for much more productive things, such as tanks. ;)

Well, that's just my $2.50 but only on Tuesdays at McDonalds.
 
Sevorak, I have to take issue with a couple of the things you said:

The Great Library

+Semi-unique effect
+Fits many play styles
+Effect increases with time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+Decent amount of time before expiring

-Not too difficult to obtain techs by trading instead of building this
-Can be captured

The effect of the Great Library reduces with time, as you get further and further ahead of the AI in tech. You'd be a fool to try and build this when you're already working on a SSC strategy. If you really need a basic tech, then trade for it if it will interrupt your "target" techs. Otherwise, ignore it. I never bother with the wheel or horseback riding until I've almost finished Michelangelo's Chapel. They are not essential techs until you want Leonardo's and even then easy to get if you offer philosophy. You can easily get by by just trading for the wheel and never researching horseback riding at all.
I also fail to see why "Must build" qualifies as a "+". There are two ways of understanding this and responding to it: (a) This is only a statement of your opinion on whether you need this wonder or not, or (b) The fact that you cannot steal it to enjoy its full effects is surely a negative thing. Must build cannot be a good thing.
 
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