Which Unit is Better: Viking Berserker or Japanese Samurai?

[Head Serf]

Which unit is better: The Viking Berserker or the Japanese Samurai?

Both Tokugawa and Ragnar are Agressive, so their Unique Units both start with Combat 1. Both units cost 70 hammers to build, have one movement, get a 50% increase against melee, and have a strength of 8.

The differences are that the Samurai can only be built with Iron, while Berserkers can use copper or iron, Berserkers recieve +10% when attacking cities and get the amphibious promotion, and Samurai get 2 Free Strikes.

So, members of this forum, which UU is ultimately better?

 

[Thedrin]

I prefer the samurai since I like first strikes. Trebuchets and catapults are a powerful enough option for attacking cities that the berserker's city attack bonus isn't as significant as the swordsman's bonus (which can be available prior to siege units, defence bombardments and colateral damage). The downside is that if the Japanease don't get iron they're forced to base their medieval army on longbows, trebuchets and pikemen. In this way the samurai can be a real negative.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

Berserkers. They can make for immense city attackers as they alreasy have a bonus for city attack before even having a city raider promotion. Having the Amphibious promotion also enables you to attack from boats and across rivers without being penalised. This also is great because your boat based Bereserkers can't be touched by other land units, and any based behind rivers cannot be attacked without the AI suffering a penalty for attacking across water.

The Samurais first strikes however are very underwhelming IMO. I'm not saying that they aren't helpful, but when compared to the bonuses the Berserker gets, they don't seem anything special.

For me, the Berseker is probably in the top 5 UU's.

 

[Wodan]

 

[drkodos]

I think the Beserker fits a bit better with the Viking Trading Post, and is the better UU. Being able to raid willy-nilly from the sea (or across rivers) is hella-fun and makes it more difficult for enemies to plan defenses againt the impending invasion. Both have good graphics, fwiw....hehe.

 

[jimbob27]

Lol, I think your anti-viking passion is going a bit over the top Did your ancestors get raped and pillaged or something?

I say they're both good, but for different reasons, and pretty difficult to compare. Samurai's are a better macemen replacment imo, the first strikes seem to make a bigger difference than the 10% city raider. My main use for beserkers is so I can have city raider amphibious riflemen. I'll build as many as my economy can support and combine them with hereditary rule so they're serving a purpose whilst they're waiting to be upgraded.

 

[abuaftab]

When you upgrade a beserker to grenadier etc you keep the amphibious promotion. When you upgrade a samurai you lose the 2 first strikes. So I know which is better.

 

[DevilJin]

I think that both units are great and useful, so the thread sould compare another unique units.

 

[wioneo]

I am a bit biased because in the only game that I've been Tokugawa, I had to steal the only source of iron with axes and swords against longbows. By the time that I had taken the metal, I was just a few turns away from chemistry. For the seven to ten turns during which they were available, my Samurais anihalated everything in their path. However, even if I had been able to effectively utilize the first strikes, they were gone when I upgraded to grenadiers. The amphibuous bonus lasted for the entire game, and if a game lasted long enough, I could have city raider marines. I don't think that infantry upgrade to marines, and all of my grenades would be upgraded at that point. I personally think that all unique unit abilities should be incorporated into medals so that they can be upgraded. That 10% can make a huge difference if you pull of a Civil Service slingshot and are financial which allows you to research machinery in under 10 turns. Of course your maces would be facing archers then...

 

[BomberTank]

I think the Samurai is usless -- I mean whats so great about 2 first strikes???
maybe because i come from a multiplayer perspective but the strongest unit will win most of the time regardless of first strike -- and you need iron for samurais talk about negative , maybe it was 2 moves I would consider it useful

As well the berserker amphibious landing is useful but not that great at all, their trading post is amazing however

The best UU's or true UU's because they are actually more useful than their original would have to be the cossack,conquistador,war chariot,immortal,impi -- others are pretty useless or have no importance

 

[Meatbuster]

You forgot the Praetorian required iron too.

I don't know, many seem to undervalue first strike a lot. The point of First Strike is, if your have more power than the opponent, then your unit will be damaged even less than if they didn't have first strike. So if I have a city raider 3 maceman or a well-promoted combat shock maceman, I'd rather have a bonus of 2 first strikes than an additional +10% city attack.

 

[CivDude86]

Since treb's are my main city attacker I have to go with Samurai since the 1st strikes help outside of cities.

 

[Stylesrj]

I resfuse to vote as there is no Giant Radioactive Monkey option.

I don't play as Japan, so in my biased opinion, since I did play as Ragnar once (Islands map, game sucked) so I prefer a beserker. IMHO, the Navy SEAL is a better unit

 

[Isamael]

I choose Viking over Samurai any day...

 

[MartinhoMukanga]

I think the Berserker is 10 times better than Samurai. It already comes with a city attack bonus, so if you give im city raider I and II he is a perfect city attacker. Besides that, he can attack from a ship, wich is great.

 

[Wodan]

Lol, I think your anti-viking passion is going a bit over the top Did your ancestors get raped and pillaged or something?

I'm sure I had ancestors on both sides of the "raping and pillaging" fence.

In any event, my main beef with the Berserker is what some claim is the biggest advantage of it. Namely, that the Amphibious benefit is upgradable, so that you have Amphib Infantry or whatever. Which, I agree, would be and is a huge benefit.

And so, we're left with the greatest benefit of the Viking UU being that they set themselves up for the future. Yes, WWII saw hordes of scandanivian troops fighting Nazis in the Baltic and Africa. Nice.

Wodan

 

[Wodan]

I think the Berserker is 10 times better than Samurai. It already comes with a city attack bonus, so if you give im city raider I and II he is a perfect city attacker.

Samurai have a city attack bonus too.

Actually, their bonus is better/more adaptable because it also works when attacking in the field. You can give a Samurai CRI and CRII and he's a perfect city attacker. Remember, the defenders are going to be longbows. Or, you can give him Combat or whatever, and he's the perfect field unit.

Wodan

 

[MartinhoMukanga]

I didn't know the Samurai had a city attack bonus

 

[Thedrin]

+2 first strikes.

This cancels the longbowman's first strike with one to spare.

 

[aelf]

OH NO!! NOT AGAIN!!!