Which Will Exist In Heaven - Evil Or Free Will?

[Masquerouge]

now, if heaven actually existed, the most evil you could maybe do is be annoying to other people. do they have flamethrowers in heaven?
if not, it`d be hard to commit inventive forms of murder.

 

[Shylock]

Ah, then its just the opinion of some dudes. They shouldnt be taken very seriously. Or I should say, no more seriously than your opinion, or mine, or puglovers or anyone elses.


Oh right, Heaven is supposed to be the New Jerusalem right? Coming down out of the clouds?

A New Jerusalem?

Yay, more land to blow ourselves up over!

 

[bob bobato]

In heaven, you'll have free will. But if [place god here] doesn't like your choices, you'll visit Hell. Forever.

 

[Atlas14]

If abstinence is advocated in heaven, then both evil and free-will will exist in Heaven.

 

[Quiet Sound]

Why should sex be a sin? I think there might be sex in heaven (possibly) it will just be different from sex on earth. But there are, believe it or not, greater things than sex.

There is no marriage in (the Christian) Heaven.

Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. - Matthew 22:29, 30

The implications of that may vary depending upon one's view of the value of earthly life.


As for the rest of the thread, I just want to offer this passage about New Jerusalem:

The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. - Revelation 21:15, 16

Clearly a cube is being described. Who do we know that lives in cubes?

Spoiler :

 

[Ramius75]

There is no marriage in (the Christian) Heaven.

Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. - Matthew 22:29, 30

The implications of that may vary depending upon one's view of the value of earthly life.


As for the rest of the thread, I just want to offer this passage about New Jerusalem:

The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. - Revelation 21:15, 16

Clearly a cube is being described. Who do we know that lives in cubes?

Spoiler :

nice, + they have no free will, no crime, no lust, no greed, no emotion, no guilt, no shame, no joy, no sadness, no nothing but a god.

 

[Bast]

You can have free will and not do evil. There are people on Earth who are already like that.

 

[Zarn]

You can have free will and not do evil. There are people on Earth who are already like that.

Everyone sins, so I'm going to have to say no to that.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Well, 3 pages so far and nobody's given a satisfactory answer.

I think I may have discovered a conundrum

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I gave an answer that satisfies me at least, I don't know what your problem is . . .

 

[punkbass2000]

Me too, Eran.

 

[Ayatollah So]

Lucifer fell, and he was in Heaven. So did 1/3 of the angels. I guess they had the choice to do evil.

To do what you consider evil is to remove yourself from heaven. You are not "kicked out".

I thought Pontiuth had an inescapable dilemma, but Zarn and punkbass show the way out.

 

[puglover]

Everyone sins, so I'm going to have to say no to that.

Well, our sin nature will be purified, so our inclinations will no longer lean toward evil.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

I thought Pontiuth had an inescapable dilemma, but Zarn and punkbass show the way out.

Well, if they're right, then eventually Heaven is empty.

 

[punkbass2000]

Well, if they're right, then eventually Heaven is empty.

Unless, of course, leaving doesn't prevent you from coming back.

 

[Zarn]

Well, our sin nature will be purified, so our inclinations will no longer lean toward evil.

Angels and humans are heavily flawed no matter where they are and what events they have undergone. There is no such thing as a purely good angel or human. That would have required them to be perfect.

This is why what I said before happened and is proof that evil acts can exist in Heaven.

 

[Quasar1011]

Angels and humans are heavily flawed no matter where they are and what events they have undergone. There is no such thing as a purely good angel or human. That would have required them to be perfect.

There are most definitely perfect angels. One cannot stand in the presence of God, unless one is perfect. So, we know Gabriel is perfect:

Luke 1:19
The angel answered, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news."

There are not yet perfect humans (except for One). But there will be!

Hebrews 11:40
God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Well, our sin nature will be purified, so our inclinations will no longer lean toward evil.

Best answer I've seen here. Once humans get to Heaven, and are made perfect, who in their right mind would exercise their free will in order to do evil? Especially after seeing what happened to the other beings in Heaven that exercised their free will to do evil? (that is, fallen angels, aka demons)

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Why doesn't God make all of us "perfect" now? Why didn't he make all humans "perfect"?

 

[Zarn]

Gabriel is not perfect, because Gabriel is not Jahveh. It doesn't matter what the text says or doesn't say.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

9. Conclusion: either the free will defence of evil ain't all it's cracked up to be, or Heaven ain't all its cracked up to be.

I don't believe there is actually a Hell, so I think free will is capable of occurring in Heaven.