Who ever uses environmentalism?

[Killroyan]

I can say that I have used every other civ in the game but I have never, I repeat NEVER adapted environmentalism because it is just not worth it if you ask me. +1 health from jungle is just I wonder how this civ could be made stronger. +1 food/+1 hammer/+1 coin for every jungle and 1 health and then maybe I would think about it. Or maybe it should add 1 and 1 for every jungle. But right now it is never going to beat mercantalism in SE economies, free trade or state property (my favourite).

So what do you guys think?

 

[Brave Jay]

Who ever uses environmentalism?

Not Me

 

[madscientist]

It is great whne you have large cities and just got assembly line. The +6 health (nothing required) will hold you over until you build hospitals, supermarket, recylcing plants, or discover genetics. The happiness is usually a moot point at that time.

 

[madscientist]

Other options for environemtalism
1) It helps the ironworks city if it is in forrested/lumbermilled area (I usually build it there).
2) You do not have to waste hammers on hospitals/Supermakets/Grocers(if you have not built them) and can build drydocks/airports without concern about health. An airport in each city makes up for the loss of the extra trade route from free market.
3) No unhealthiness in a city allows you to run an extra scpecialist without mercantilism and it's loss of foreign trade routes (A big disadvantage).

 

[SPQR300]

it is the MOST useful civic at modern era start games.

 

[madscientist]

Sorry, still not finished, I keep hitting the return key.

I do not use enviromentalism often but use it alot more than mercantilism (I really hate losing the foeign trade routes). I use mostly free market when it's available and state property when I have large cumbersome empires and few or no shrines.

A final note, you can wreck alot of havock on AI's and break some alliances/friendships by forcing environmetalism through the UN. Mansa/Hannibal can get be talked into war with previous friends. The AI's would have wateds alot of hammers on buildings that ar enow irrelevant because of environmentalism, which you would never have built if you switched earlier. It is a suttle tool.

 

[tycoonist]

it can be useful on a smallish empire with many health problems

 

[Florian]

+1 health from jungle

It's +1 per jungle, not . The health bonus is +6 empirewide. That's a lot better.

But no, I've never used it. By then there are other means of getting health. Except in a Modern start, I guess.

 

[AThousandYoung]

There should be a research bonus per Jungle. There's so much life in there...

 

[UncleJJ]

I think it might be a lot more useful in BtS with the new wonder there that gives loads of free specialists for forest preserves.

It seems a poor civic now but I have used it about twice in late-game SE games where I have several huge cities that suddenly had the urge to grow when Biology was researched (10 farms => +10 food with Biology). Once above their health caps each additional pop in these cities costs 3 food to feed. So in that case the basic + 6 from Environmentalism can be worth 6 food. If you have 2 or 3 forests left inside your fat cross they add another 2 or 3 which is also useful. Enviromentalism can be worth the same as building a Hospital and a Supermarket in your biggest cities and that's a lot of hammers. I'd say it is primarilly a civic for a SE and one when you're going for a Diplomatic victory and want to grow your pop to the maximum.

 

[r_rolo1]

In isolated starts is a must, because of the scarcity of resources. can be obtained more easily than in that kind of maps ( bar, theaters, cathedrals and temples, colloseums, FR, ... ) and those 6 help a lot, believe me

 

[obsolete]

Ummm.. is there anyone here who still has jungle around in their fat crosses by the end of the game so if they run this civic they can get a little bonus from it? LOL

Interesting that a poster claims it can break alliances etc. I noticed the AI loves to vote for this civ anyhow. So I guess the AI votes for it's own destruction (again)?


How Ironic.

 

[madscientist]

OK, Hanibal (running free market) is pleased with me (running environmentalism), pleased with next door Washington (runnign free market). Un flip everyone to environmentalsim. Hannibal is pleased with me still but cautious towards GW. I can now usually bribe Hannibal into declaring on washington. Ditto Mansa Musa. It has worked in the past for me, not often, but it has.

 

[frob2900]

There should be a research bonus per Jungle. There's so much life in there...

Now that would actually make sense, and is indeed a very good idea. Considering all the discussion about e.g. new biological and/or medical discoveries coming from the rain forests etc. Not a big bonus perhaps, but just a few beakers per jungle tile.

The National Park natl.wonder from BtS might simulate something similar to this by giving specialists for each forest tile (don't know if one gets them for jungle, though).

I also think that any civ that's chopping down jungle ought to get a cumulative diplomatic penalty with Civs that are running environmentalism

"-2 You're destroying the rainforest!"

 

[bode404]

Now that would actually make sense, and is indeed a very good idea. Considering all the discussion about e.g. new biological and/or medical discoveries coming from the rain forests etc. Not a big bonus perhaps, but just a few beakers per jungle tile.

The National Park natl.wonder from BtS might simulate something similar to this by giving specialists for each forest tile (don't know if one gets them for jungle, though).

I also think that any civ that's chopping down jungle ought to get a cumulative diplomatic penalty with Civs that are running environmentalism

"-2 You're destroying the rainforest!"

Not at all, I think. By the time you enable Enviromentalism, most techs are high-technology related, which wouldnt benefit much from the wild life in the jungle.

 

[obsolete]

Now that would actually make sense, and is indeed a very good idea. Considering all the discussion about e.g. new biological and/or medical discoveries coming from the rain forests etc.

That era ended at the end of the 80's. It is much more ecconomical and feasable for the biotech firms to do everything inhouse rather than hunt for miracles and steal from nature.

 

[Breunor]

I've used it in the resource poor maps. Look at plains or some positions in highlands. If you aren't conquering the whole map, you don't have resources. You can use Hereditary rule or the culture slider for happiness, but on those maps I find it useful.

Breunor

 

[slaze]

Enviornmentalism has is late game uses. In a game as Japan it covered for the shale plants and then allowed my cities to grow an extra 3-4 pop. But its benefits are very situational. If you had an interior empire on a say a pangea (few harbors), a few extra pop can translate into quite a few hammers while running a space race and needing all those "unhealthy" buildings.

 

[RockTheCazbah87]

I've only used it once... I was Ragnar in the middle of my continent, and my factories and plants were just too much so I switched for the health bonus. I had 1 or 2 forests and that was it... so it's pretty crap.

 

[Killroyan]

Arf my bad for not reading it properly. I always thought it gave 1 health per jungle rofl. So yeah 6 health is nothing to sneeze at. And it is 1 per forest and jungle. Ok, that will teach me to read better. But still I think it is not that strong. Jungle should at least give something extra. Forest are nice tiles but jungle tiles are just 1F tiles, equal to tundra. Since there is so much to learn from it even the proposition I made with +1F/+1H/+1C doesn't make it overpowered. It still won't win from state property on normal maps.