Why Airships?

[Ray Patterson]

Why does Beyond the Sword include this unit called "Airship"? Was that for game balance reasons or historical accuracy?

Because as far as I can see it's neither. Airpower is already ridiculously important. That might be realistic, in terms of game balance it already was on the extreme side. I suppose the advantage is that airships could defend against modern airplanes? Still, they seem too silly.

And I guess that's my main problem with them: didn't zeppelins play a very minor part in actual warfare? As far as I can tell it was too easy to shoot down and too prone to crash. Yes bombings have been performed... about two. Not enough to merit an actual unit that can fly faster than any land unit moves and not get hurt by gunpowder units. It just looks silly.

Agree/disagree? Why did Firaxis do this?

 

[capnvonbaron]

Airships can be devastating if you beeline physics (you get a GS as a reward too ) and start building them early. The ability to bombard enemy units unmolested is awesome, and their recon ability is worthwhile in itself (both to locate enemy SoDs and any incoming naval invasions)

Historically accurate? Not so much -- I agree that the programmers at firaxis were smoking a big doobie when they agreed on the tech requirement for them. IMO airships should come with combustion at minimum. Regardless tho they are very useful if you use them right.

 

[Yxklyx]

Airships can be devastating if you beeline physics (you get a GS as a reward too ) and start building them early. The ability to bombard enemy units unmolested is awesome, and their recon ability is worthwhile in itself (both to locate enemy SoDs and any incoming naval invasions)

Historically accurate? Not so much -- I agree that the programmers at firaxis were smoking a big doobie when they agreed on the tech requirement for them. IMO airships should come with combustion at minimum. Regardless tho they are very useful if you use them right.

I modded the game so they require Combustion as well. Works and feels MUCH better now. Flight is only one tech away.

 

[Ray Patterson]

I modded the game so they require Combustion as well. Works and feels MUCH better now. Flight is only one tech away.

Yeah that makes sense. Hard to imagine an aircraft with a steam engine. Wait, even steam power isn't necessary for them right? Ridiculous. How are they going to move? Just like hot air balloons? Sure, send a hot air balloon on a recon mission of a 1000 km.

 

[cardgame]

I think they'd be better if they could only recon.

 

[Willem]

I modded the game so they require Combustion as well. Works and feels MUCH better now. Flight is only one tech away.

I've gone one step further. They become available with Flight and I've added a Biplane unit as an intercepter. The regular Fighter is now available with Radio, just like the Bomber. Airships also upgrade as Bombers. That scenario makes alot more sense to me than having Airships appear with Physics, with no counter. They were first used in WW1, when Biplanes were also available.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Airships were historically used as prototype bombers in the western front for the whole duration of WW1 even going so far to bomb London.
They were also used extensively during WW2 for submarine hunting.

As such, their historical significance in warfare matches that of the airplane.

 

[tootallbob]

I wish I knew enough about the game and how to alter it to get rid of the bombing by airships and only use them for recon and only for shorter distances. Historically they were a huge disappointment and were insignificant to both WWI and WWII outcomes. They were easily spotted, and shot down. I agree with the earlier doobie comment. Bi-Planes were far more significant and deadly than airships but they are not used at all in the game unless you are using the Modern Warfare Mod.

 

[Yxklyx]

I've gone one step further. They become available with Flight and I've added a Biplane unit as an intercepter. The regular Fighter is now available with Radio, just like the Bomber. Airships also upgrade as Bombers. That scenario makes alot more sense to me than having Airships appear with Physics, with no counter. They were first used in WW1, when Biplanes were also available.

Did you reduce the AI value for Physics also? It seems that several AIs still rush towards Physics without realizing they can no longer build Airships at that time. Physics is less valuable now that Airships can't be built without Combustion.

 

[Willem]

Did you reduce the AI value for Physics also? It seems that several AIs still rush towards Physics without realizing they can no longer build Airships at that time. Physics is less valuable now that Airships can't be built without Combustion.

I don't see the point of altering the value. It's still a requirement for Flight, which is a fairly important tech to have. Also being able to see where the Uranium is located is pretty important as well, if you intend on going Nuclear. Even without Airships, it's still a fairly valuable tech for the AI to get. I'm pretty sure that Firaxis didn't increase the value for it when they added the Airships in the first place, so why reduce it.

PS:. I just had a look and Physics doesn't have an AI Weight value at all. Unless it's in the DLL file then, there's nothing to adjust. And that would be way too much trouble to go through just to move the unit to Flight.

 

[Yxklyx]

I wish I knew enough about the game and how to alter it to get rid of the bombing by airships and only use them for recon and only for shorter distances. Historically they were a huge disappointment and were insignificant to both WWI and WWII outcomes. They were easily spotted, and shot down. I agree with the earlier doobie comment. Bi-Planes were far more significant and deadly than airships but they are not used at all in the game unless you are using the Modern Warfare Mod.

This is pretty easy to change I think. Would need to look at the Civ4unitinfos.xml file - which I don't have access to right now.

 

[Fatality_Slim]

Airships fill a very important and valuable role: to provide your new fighters with experience points before you are able to build airports.

seriously, there is nothing better than setting one fighter to intercept near bases crammed with AI zepplins and have him get like 4-6 experience points in one turn.

"Zepplin commander, we have reports of enemy fighters over th........ [static].

Other than Exp farms and "lets find the enemy SOD because Civ has no concept of sovereign airspace" they are mostly useless.

 

[beest]

Why does Beyond the Sword include this unit called "Airship"? Was that for game balance reasons or historical accuracy?

Because as far as I can see it's neither. Airpower is already ridiculously important. That might be realistic, in terms of game balance it already was on the extreme side. I suppose the advantage is that airships could defend against modern airplanes? Still, they seem too silly.

And I guess that's my main problem with them: didn't zeppelins play a very minor part in actual warfare? As far as I can tell it was too easy to shoot down and too prone to crash. Yes bombings have been performed... about two. Not enough to merit an actual unit that can fly faster than any land unit moves and not get hurt by gunpowder units. It just looks silly.

Agree/disagree? Why did Firaxis do this?

I think they did it to make airpower available a bit earlier in the game. As it was I think it came a bit late. Good improvement in my opinion.

 

[kazapp]

Civ would have been a better game without them Airships.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Whats with all the airship hate?
I personally love them.
They are better than anything short of a bomber, especialy if the enemy is an AI with inadequate air defenses.

And in epic/marathon games they come much sooner than aircraft. Getting airships and than using them to rushbomb everyone lower on the tech scale than you is priceless.

 

[Yxklyx]

I was waiting for someone...

Airships are really really powerful as they currently are - coming in at Physics. Since the combat engine heavily favors small advantages in strength, the Airship can reduce a unit's strength just enough so that your units can finish them off easily. Especially useful against Frigates for instance where combat odds will often change from 50% to something much greater. That said, they are quite a bit unrealistic and detract from the game's immersion (but so does the AI's use of Catapults alongside Rifles and Cavalry).

Modding the game to make them come later in the tech tree and/or reducing their bombing strength are both good things to do.

 

[fenrus]

Whats with all the airship hate?
I personally love them.
They are better than anything short of a bomber, especialy if the enemy is an AI with inadequate air defenses.

And in epic/marathon games they come much sooner than aircraft. Getting airships and than using them to rushbomb everyone lower on the tech scale than you is priceless.

That's what everyone is complaining about. They are overpowered for the tech period they are in. There is no counter using your Pikemen or Riflemen.

So does anyone have a good mod that balances the tech requirement? I think Steam Power or Railroad is a better secondary requirement since Combustion and Flight are a bit close to each other in the tech tree.

 

[Yxklyx]

That's what everyone is complaining about. They are overpowered for the tech period they are in. There is no counter using your Pikemen or Riflemen.

So does anyone have a good mod that balances the tech requirement? I think Steam Power or Railroad is a better secondary requirement since Combustion and Flight are a bit close to each other in the tech tree.

Combustion and Assembly Line are right about the same time. The way I see it:

Airships: 1900 (Zepellin)
Combustion: 1906 (Steam turbine/Dreadnought)
Assembly Line: 1908 (Ford)

So I really think they should appear with Combustion and Physics. Yes, Combustion and Flight are very close together but then again Airships shouldn't have a large window of use. I think it's significant that they are the first air units and if you're in a war you're going to build them right away instead of researching or waiting for Flight. Plus, at that time you'll also be thinking of researching Assembly Line and heading towards Industrialism so Flight isn't necessarily a first priority. Not only that, but they can spot Submarines which Fighers can't so they still serve a purpose when those come out.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Airships are not OP at all.
They are like muskets, extremely powerful units for a wary short time.

It gives people something to rush for in the modern era.

 

[fenrus]

With enough Great Scientists, you could quite easily get Physics before Rifling. Hardly a small window of opportunity to use Airships.