For me, none. That's why I refuse to vote for him. For some of my friends its the far left issues like absolving all student debt and free healthcare for all are a bit much for them. I can't control how they feel about it. While I don't fully agree with those, getting the madman out of office before he destroys the country is the primary goal for now.
Why Can't The Left Win?
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Yeah, making sure everyone has access to healthcare is totally up there in heinousness with trying to eradicate transgender people.
My point is, when one side's focused on trying to help people (even when you don't totally agree with how they want to do that) and the other's centered around harming people, trying to suggest there's a reasonable middle ground appears to me like complete foolishness.
Your friends made the decision that because Democrats want to help people too much for their tastes, they feel it's acceptable to let the Republicans run ramshod over peoples' rights.
Your friends made the decision that because Democrats want to help people too much for their tastes, they feel it's acceptable to let the Republicans run ramshod over peoples' rights.
EgonSpengler
Deity
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- 12,260
The New York Times, 30 April 2019 - "Trump and Democrats agree to pursue $2 trillion infrastructure plan"
The Washington Post, 4 May 2019 - "Trump's bipartisan infrastructure plan already imperiled as Mulvaney, GOP lawmakers object to cost"
Of course, Donald Trump is a pathological liar with the attention span of a toddler, so anyone who believes anything he says is a fool.
There are more than just two sides. That's my point. I am on neither of the sides you keep talking about. So both sides think I'm an ass.
To me there can be a reasonable middle ground if both sides would demonstrate good faith. But do realize that Good faith from the right doesn't really exist. Which is the main reason they're losing the support of the middle.
To me there can be a reasonable middle ground if both sides would demonstrate good faith. But do realize that Good faith from the right doesn't really exist. Which is the main reason they're losing the support of the middle.
When one side wants equal rights for all, and the other wants restricted rights for select groups, what "reasonable middle ground" are you picturing?
Cloud_Strife
Deity
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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Quoted is flagrantly disingenuous reasoning. Quite a few people perceive the way the left "tries to help" to have harmful results, and even sociopaths generally choose "harming people" because it helps their goal, not as a goal in its own right. There are vindictive trash human beings out there, but they are exceptional...not representative of a huge portion of a country.
Most of the selfish policies typically associated with the right are centered on self-gratification, and disregard harm to that end. Harm isn't the end goal. That said, denying someone resources that aren't already theirs is not harming them. Taking resources from them or physically harming them does harm them.
There's no known way to attain both equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. Pushing for one implies sacrificing the other, and will distribute at least some harm accordingly.
There is no side that wants equal rights for all.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Something something compromise! Although note these are usually Other people's rights and lives they like to compromise on.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Strange because the only people the GOP truly seem to care about is rich white people, hell their entire goal is to help them at the expense of society as a whole but no doubt there are those still enraptured by the whole "greed is good" mantra.
Whom are the GOP helping when they ignore climate change for example? Or environmental issues? Not working class Americans that's for sure.
On that topic alone they've shown they don't care and they couldn’t give a **** if you're saddled with the consequences of that they couldn't care less, its not even a concern.
Whom are the GOP helping when they ignore climate change for example? Or environmental issues? Not working class Americans that's for sure.
On that topic alone they've shown they don't care and they couldn’t give a **** if you're saddled with the consequences of that they couldn't care less, its not even a concern.
Zardnaar
Deity
Trump campaigned on economic populism and some people did flip from Obama to Trump.
He didn't deliver though and he made contradictory promises. Cheaper, better healthcare for example. Universal healthcare would probably do that if it was run well.
He was speaking language that average Americans could understand.
To remove Trump you need around 40 000 people in 3 states to change their minds.
The middle is probably 5% now. You only need around 1% to change their minds.
Trump has the support of about 80 or 90% of Republicans. He needs 100% plus a few in the middle.
He's doubling down on driving his turnout in the states he won in 2016.
The victories of 2018 were mostly focusing on economic things and healthcare. The blue dog types won more than the urban liberal stereotypes.
If I were the Dems I would be running ads of Trump's campaigning in 2016 and turn GoP attack points on Obama against Trump.
For example I saw Sarah Palin at a tea party rally. She asked them how's hope and change working out.
So run an add using footage of Trump's "better cheaper healthcare" and ask the electorate how that's working out.
There's a literal goldmine of Trump's campaign promises to throw in his face.
I wouldn't campaign to hard on social issues. Put that on your website somewhere. Sent him oxygen on wedge issues and everyone already knows positions on things like immigration and abortion.
Emphasis tax cuts for the 1% which is Trump's only legislative achievement.
Senethro
Overlord
Who is genuinely for equality of opportunity though? Noone who is anti-immigration, thats for sure.
How is equality of opportunity expanded? I only ever hear it in relation to opposition to equality of outcome, but its proponents pay token lip service to it as their totem while doing nothing about it. Don't they believe in their own values?
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Lexicus
Deity
One time I told someone who was pushing the equality of opportunity line that real equality of opportunity would require a 100% inheritance tax and equal access to education for every person without regard to income and they balked
Zardnaar
Deity
University used to be free here but numbers were a lot lower.
I can't see to many people signing off on a 100% inheritance tax.
We had a party here who in 1993 wanted to crank tax up very high 70-80% iirc. But they wanted a 100% on people leaving the country lol.
Lexicus
Deity
Hence, we want policy to guarantee some degree of equality of outcome
Tristan_C
Emperor
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- 1,730
How well do you understand the situation? Why do you think Republicans attack education and the media?
Zardnaar
Deity
From memory I think in the 20s the UK introduced a 50% inheritence tax.
The idea was to break up the landed estates.
I'm not sure where the upper limits of a tax rate are, personally I suspect around 50%.
It has been higher of course but very few people paid it and the highest real tax rate I know of was in Russia where it apparently was 95% on the Serfs.
And where did I say that? I never said what was worst. Your hatred blinds you as much as it does the right. You really should check that since it makes you sound just as bad as them. Another example of why being in the middle is disliked by all. Just because I don't always agree with everything you say does not make me an alt right monster.
