Zardnaar
Deity
I didn't vote for any populist. If I did it wouldn't be expecting them to do anything
Who To Vote For?
- Thread starter Zardnaar
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I didn't vote for any populist. If I did it wouldn't be expecting them to do anything
Zardnaar
Deity
I don't foresee to Manu problems short term. In two years if polls are down I could see Winnie walking like he did 1998.
Policy doesn't really matter that much espicially minor parties
I mostly hear about Kiwi politics through a self-described leftist friend who votes ACT so if my perspectives are a bit strange blame them.
"New Zealand is such a progressive country" is a big meme, there are many people even on the Australian Left who fall for it, especially while Ardern was prime minister. Certainly that government tries to look progressive, but its economic system and institutions (with one big exception) aren't much different than Australia's. It's a poorer country and has a lower population than the state of Victoria (5.1 million vs 6.6 million). It's also much less urbanised (Melbourne contains ~75% of Victoria's population, Auckland only ~33% of New Zealand's; adding the next six largest cities bring you up to ~50%) and highly reliant on agricultural exports. And this is an era where left- vs right-wing tribal politics are increasingly defined by the urban vs rural divide, Aotearoa no exception.
What sets New Zealand apart from Australia and other Anglo nations more than anything else is its relationship with its indigenous people (17% of the population). The Treaty of Waitangi (1840) governs the relationship between the British and later New Zealand Crown with the Maori iwis, and it's been interpreted and reinterpreted many times over the years. For many years the consensus, including among Maori leaders, was towards Maori assimilation into the mainstream. In recent years the mood on the political left has swung sharply the other way, every attempt is made to preserve Maori as a distinct society apart from the rest of the country, give Maori preferential treatment (to the extent that people are being prioritised for healthcare solely on the basis of race), and giving iwis more and more say in government outside of the parliamentary framework. The political right has pushed back, demanding an end to "co-governance" and special privileges (the two parties most opposed are ACT and New Zealand First, and both have Maori leaders, who incidentally hate each other)
Labour is your typical centre-left party, says nice things about equality, being for the working class, etc.
National is your typical centre-right party, talks a lot about law and order, stability, looking after farmers and businesses
Greens is the left-wing party, talks a lot about climate change, standing up for the oppressed, Free Palestine, etc. Has only ever been in coalition with Labour.
ACT is the libertarian party, all about cutting taxes, cutting regulations, freedom of speech. Has been in coalition with National in the past.
New Zealand First is the populist party, economically interventionist, socially conservative, anti-immigration, organised around leader Winston Peters who is Trump if he was Maori and actually working class and competent. Has been in coalition with both National and Labour governments (Peters was, no kidding, Minister for Foreign Affairs under two Labour PMs)
Te Pati Maori (Maori Party) is Greens but exclusively Maori, supports the reinterpretation of the treaty system as described above especially in cultural/identity matters, especially under the current co-leaders. Has also been in coalition with both National and Labour governments, although it's undergone a big left-ward tilt as of late.
"New Zealand is such a progressive country" is a big meme, there are many people even on the Australian Left who fall for it, especially while Ardern was prime minister. Certainly that government tries to look progressive, but its economic system and institutions (with one big exception) aren't much different than Australia's. It's a poorer country and has a lower population than the state of Victoria (5.1 million vs 6.6 million). It's also much less urbanised (Melbourne contains ~75% of Victoria's population, Auckland only ~33% of New Zealand's; adding the next six largest cities bring you up to ~50%) and highly reliant on agricultural exports. And this is an era where left- vs right-wing tribal politics are increasingly defined by the urban vs rural divide, Aotearoa no exception.
What sets New Zealand apart from Australia and other Anglo nations more than anything else is its relationship with its indigenous people (17% of the population). The Treaty of Waitangi (1840) governs the relationship between the British and later New Zealand Crown with the Maori iwis, and it's been interpreted and reinterpreted many times over the years. For many years the consensus, including among Maori leaders, was towards Maori assimilation into the mainstream. In recent years the mood on the political left has swung sharply the other way, every attempt is made to preserve Maori as a distinct society apart from the rest of the country, give Maori preferential treatment (to the extent that people are being prioritised for healthcare solely on the basis of race), and giving iwis more and more say in government outside of the parliamentary framework. The political right has pushed back, demanding an end to "co-governance" and special privileges (the two parties most opposed are ACT and New Zealand First, and both have Maori leaders, who incidentally hate each other)
Labour is your typical centre-left party, says nice things about equality, being for the working class, etc.
National is your typical centre-right party, talks a lot about law and order, stability, looking after farmers and businesses
Greens is the left-wing party, talks a lot about climate change, standing up for the oppressed, Free Palestine, etc. Has only ever been in coalition with Labour.
ACT is the libertarian party, all about cutting taxes, cutting regulations, freedom of speech. Has been in coalition with National in the past.
New Zealand First is the populist party, economically interventionist, socially conservative, anti-immigration, organised around leader Winston Peters who is Trump if he was Maori and actually working class and competent. Has been in coalition with both National and Labour governments (Peters was, no kidding, Minister for Foreign Affairs under two Labour PMs)
Te Pati Maori (Maori Party) is Greens but exclusively Maori, supports the reinterpretation of the treaty system as described above especially in cultural/identity matters, especially under the current co-leaders. Has also been in coalition with both National and Labour governments, although it's undergone a big left-ward tilt as of late.
Zardnaar
Deity
Bit biased and stereotypical but not wrong as such. The lefties voting for ACT is a bit of a meme here probably libertarian in USA terms.
bene_legionary
Searching for the daguerrotype of God
I heard a proposal today about the potential of a TOP coalition with National; if the Nats withdrew from Ilam to give it to TOP (like they did in Epsom in Auckland with ACT) they would give TOP extra seats via party vote and therefore get a bigger majority of seats.
Personally not sure how that would pan out.
Personally not sure how that would pan out.
Zardnaar
Deity
That's from several weeks ago. Raf said TOP would support national if they gifted him the Ilam seat.
TOPs been straight up about being a centrist party but online TOP bros seem to think it's a progressive party as they have cherry picked their progressive policies while ignoring the right ones.
Moot point with 2% of the vote. If they got in its an option for no Winnie.
Lexicus
Deity
Can you give an example of a politician anywhere in the world who you think fits these criteria? I'm just curious.
Zardnaar
Deity
Greens got Chloe is age 25 lady on the left age 21.
Her name is Hana-Waphiti Maipi-Clarke. She won an electorate set form TPM against the longest serving fenale member of the house (since 1996).
Her name is Hana-Waphiti Maipi-Clarke. She won an electorate set form TPM against the longest serving fenale member of the house (since 1996).
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We have several here I would say fit the description (I don't agree with some of them politically, but that's not the point); they just usually don't become part of any government coalition. They don't have that crave for power no matter the cost. They just seek influence to push the Government in a certain direction on certain topics.
Wasn't she the lady who said the Maori lunar calendar predicted climate change events better than scientists?
IMHO the last Premier we had here in Victoria was either that or came very close to that. He was an unusual combination of competent, progressive, and ruthless, with the charisma of a nerdy accountant, winning three elections back to back all in the face of a universally hostile media. A bit of a question mark on the "integrity" part; he would do things like develop an entire transit master plan in secret and present it as a fait accompli to the Department of Transport, but voters could see that he delivered on most of his promises.
Zardnaar
Deity
Something like that yes.
Zardnaar
Deity
Final results National lost two seats, they need NZ First. Greens puck up an extra seat along with TPM.
TPM got more restoration seats tgan % vote creating an overhang.
www.rnz.co.nz
Parliaments a lot more pale and male vs last term which was very similar to what country looks like.
Turnout was around 10% lower than 2023.
TPM got more restoration seats tgan % vote creating an overhang.
Special Votes: National and ACT lose majority in largest ever Parliament
Special votes have given Te Pāti Māori two more electorates, and the Greens an extra list seat, with National losing two.
www.rnz.co.nz
Parliaments a lot more pale and male vs last term which was very similar to what country looks like.
Turnout was around 10% lower than 2023.
bene_legionary
Searching for the daguerrotype of God
I wonder what bag of trick Winston's got up his sleeve – he'll probably be pulling things left, right, and centre now that he's a necessity.
Zardnaar
Deity
I think theoretically left has numbers with him as well.
O don't see him doing that but could use it for concessions.
