Why Choose Religions?

[LordGek]

One cool thing that this will allow is more than 7 religions to be used without breaking the game. Since you can choose (or is randomly assigned, in the case of the AI) a religion when you are the first to discover a religious tech, you can choose from new religions like Zoroastrianism, Odinism, etc.

I'm assuming it still has to be one of the big 7, not that you can just make up a new one on the spot.

 

[IronCrown]

I don't think it's useless. If you weren't able to found a religion before, you now have the chance to have your own religion. If you build a lot of missionaries, you can still convince other civs to convert to your faith.

Besides, if you go for cultural victory, it is important to have as many religions as possible, so you can build all the cathedral-like buildings in your culture cities. If you found the religion yourself, you are guaranteed to have it in your realm.

As for "strange" dates: I have seen Christianity founded in anything from 800 BC to 500 AD, so it really doesn't make a big difference in terms of realism.

 

[bonafide11]

Ummm... I think a lot of people here are missing the point. It doesn't create an unlimited amount of religions, and it doesn't mean you can create your own religions, it just means you can select which religion you want to find when you're the first to discover one of the religious techs.

 

[Ramesses 3000]

Religions aren't technologies anyway. Take that B.S. off the tech tree and give it an immediate slider.

 

[DarkSchneider]

I think it was because some people (like me) were tired of founding Hinduism every game

The only bearing the religion you choose has on the gameplay aspect is what your cathedral is built out of. I would imagine that you could now choose the religion suited best to your starting resources.

 

[Pellanor]

I know my room mate will like this option. Currently she refuses to be the first one to discover Code of Laws since she dislikes Confucius.

Also the current game I'm playing Islam is the dominate religion. There ended up being five different continents that the nine civs were spread amongst, all separated by ocean. At the time I founded Islam, I was the only one with cross-ocean trade routes so it quickly spread to the other continent that didn't have any religions on it yet.

 

[Zhahz]

In BtS, you choose the religion you found. Why? That takes not only all the fun, but all the historical boundaries as well. They wanted you to found Buddhism, Hinduism, or Judaism earlier because they were founded earlier. They manipulated the technologies thus. Now, you choose the religion you found, so you can found Islam (founded 620 AD) before Hinduism (founded 3000 BC)! It makes no sense.....

Why should it make sense? You can play as George Washington in ancient times, or play as Ghengis in modern times.

Few leaders in the game were around thousands of years BC - do you limit yourself on which leaders you pick due to that fact?

It's a game about fun and building a civ, not about portraying reality or reliving history.

I like to grab a religion early in many games and it gets boring always getting Hinduism.

It's equally odd to be playing as Frederick and found Hinduism in your lands.

With this option, you can pick your religion just like you pick your leader - in the spirit of a game, and not in the spirit of historical accuracy.

 

[phantom59]

It feels a little weird for Confucian Arabia to go to war with Jewish Incas.

dont forget those zealot buddhist spainards!

 

[sydhe]

Something not mentioned: now when "Buddhism has been found in a distant land" you won't immediately know that someone has researched Meditation.

When the first two religions are founded, you'll pretty much know meditation and polytheism have been founded. I've yet to have a game where monotheism was discovered before meditation. There's a slight chance code of laws can be discovered before monotheism, but the third religion will usually come from monotheism.

 

[Firebird]

I have modded the game, so religions can also be founded via special units found in goodyhuts. This means 5 to 7 religions are normally founded before any civ has more than 2 or 3 cities (early in the game). Therefore in my games there are also 5 to 7 "active" religions from start to at least the industrial age. Religions in my mod can also spread (without missionaries) to cities which already have a religion though at a reduced chance. Furthermore I have built in a chance for religions to disappear in a city so through time civs might be forced to change statereligion. This chance of disappearing is lowered for the state religion and changes as the civ changes religious civics.

This results in a constantly changing religious "map", and I don't experience a gamewide dominance of one, two or three specific religions. At the same time the religions play a role in diplomacy and war from early on and a founding-message says nothing about technology levels. I allways found the tech/religion-coupling odd.

 

[ChrTh]

When the first two religions are founded, you'll pretty much know meditation and polytheism have been founded. I've yet to have a game where monotheism was discovered before meditation. There's a slight chance code of laws can be discovered before monotheism, but the third religion will usually come from monotheism.

Oh yes, of course, once the second religion is found you know. But I was thinking more for when the first religion was founded, and for Philo vs Theo. In both cases you have two techs close by, but only one religion has been founded. If you want to gain a religion, which Tech do you go for?

Mono, CoL and DR, though, probably won't have these issues since they're typically 3rd, 4th, and 7th. But the interchangability at 1/2 and 5/6 makes going for one of those religions a riskier proposition.

 

[Dennis_Moore]

One thing they could do, even now, is allow us to NAME our religion as well as picking from the "list". So I could pick Toaism, and rename it Zoastrianism. The dynamic is the same, but the feel is a lot different.

Thank you, I will take this opportunity to complain about the fact that Zoroastrianism isn't included in the game.

I would argue that Zarathustra and Akhenaton invented monotheism independently and that Moses was basically a copycat.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I really think that what they should have done is have a dozen or so religions (like Zoroastrianism) each of which require at least a certain level tech (and possibly require other religions to already be present). When you research a religious tech you should be able to choose one of the currently available religions or pass up the opportunity to found a religion so that the next player to research the tech can found one. I'm fine with limiting the game to 7 religions at a time, but I think that the choose a religion option should allow for more dynamic game play and differences between different games rather than just open up more anachronisms.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

All the religious techs will, on the research screen, tell you if they can still discover a religion. Know how Monotheism has a little star of David in the lower left corner if Judaism hasn't been founded yet,and how all the other religious techs have one of those for their own religions? I guess those'll all be replaced by a generic religious symbol, like 2 hands clasped in prayer or something, and that of course it'll only appear if the tech still has a religion left in it, so to speak.

 

[lumpthing]

I created a mini-mod (see my signature, below) which resolves the Hinduism/Buddhism dominating the world problem without altering the historicity of the founding dates (in fact I moved the religions about a bit to make the dates more accurate. I did this by dividing the religions into three types:

Early (Hinduism, Judaism): slow spread rate, max one missionary at a time
Middle (Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism): spreads normally, max three missionaries at a time
Late (Christianity, Islam): spread quickly, max five missionaries at a time

I found this solution works well in creating a more balanced spread of religions, so I intend to mod it into BtS sometime as well.

I also think this is actually historically accurate as well. Hinduism and Judaism are very much tied to particular ethnic groups and have no evangelistic tradition. Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism did make more of an effort to spread their beliefs and the former two have both enjoyed moderate state support for 'evangelism' at various times. But they don't have the 'convert the world' zeal which features so strongly in Christianity and Islam.

In fact it seems to be so simple and significant an improvement that I find it puzzling that Firaxis didn['t implement it themselves. I can only assume they were extremely nervous of differentiating between religions, even in an inoffensive (to my mind anyway!) way like the way I've done it.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well one way that may keep it simple is to have more initial Missionaries

Monotheism=1 Missionary of chosen religion
CoL=2
Philosophy=3
Theology=4
DR=4 (and also gives a Free Great Prophet)


Perhaps Theology allows more effective Missionaries (cheaper and/or better at spreading thier religion)