Why Corean?

[Discovery One]

I think that Korea, although small throughout its history, is a more than legitimate choice, especially when you consider how many European civs there are. Besides, what is more ridiculous than starting a game in 4000 b.c.e. with the United States??? For the most part, if you want to get down to brass tacks, you should really only start with about 6 civs, and the rest are just offshoots of them -- Crete, Egypt, Sumer, the Harappan civilization, China, and the Olmec. Really, the Celts, Iroquois, Mongols, and Zulu were considered barbarians by most. Of course, we could start the game as Australopithecines and solve the whole problem!

I'm just disappointed that the Netherlands, Polynesia, Mali, and my beloved Maya didn't make it into the game. Oh well, until "Play the World Some More" comes out, I guess I'll just have to use the civ editor to fix that last one....

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by calgacus



To keep it on topic, I'd say Korea should be in the game only if another 48 civs were added, including the Welsh and Albanians.

lol! I was on another thread and they wanted a polynesian civ! I think that could be the next one after korea.

Originally posted by wohmongarinf00l

in fact, an annexation bill was passed in 1866 "inviting" the provinces of canada to the union. it was only in the last century
that america relinquished these claims.

but why would they WANT to become part of america? would you, given the choice?

 

[alpha wolf 64]

As a side note to the US/Canadian debate, Peurto Rco continually votes against joining the USA (yeahhhhhhh), so not everyone wants to be an American.

I'm disappointed that Aussies dont like Americans, we like you

Now like us or we'll nuke you

 

[akinkhoo]

i can ensure you there are more
chinese gamer than you know!

those stat can't provide a proper picture.
games usually reach our shore slowly.
so we tend to IMPORT our games.

chinese population in asean alone is
more than that of korea as a whole.

but this isn't the point
the point is korea is important and culturally unique.

- - - - -

I continue to feel that korea is unique in culture.
I know as I can relate what is not chinese culture.
and korea is difference and is civilisation on it own.

I don't see why people think korea shouldn't be a civilsation
just because there is china when it is so different a culture!
I don't see people saying
"there shouldn't be france because there is german",
"there shouldn't be greek because there is roman" etc etc...

so korea should stay! it is historically important in asia.
korea was already a country when china was unified by Qin.
Korea history is THAT long....

From Qin [Chin] comes the western name "China".

 

[newfangle]

All south east asians are decendants from the Korean penninsula. If anything, Korea should have been the first asian civ included.

 

[newfangle]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that no debate should involve Canada and the US. The US has nothing going for it.

 

[MuddyOne]

I have to comment on something. Most people from Texas consider themselves Texans, who happen to be Americans as well. Being the only independant nation that negotiated terms of inclusion into the USA seems to stick in their minds Such terms as being able to split into 5 states should it desire to.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Keep the conversation relevent to the forum, or it's going to be closed. If it's not about Korea, don't post it

 

[akinkhoo]

Originally posted by newfangle
All south east asians are decendants from the Korean penninsula. If anything, Korea should have been the first asian civ included.

i believe asean 'native' (not me) were true to their land.... they were great seafarer (and fisherman) with little relation to the outside world until they traded with the arab and become muslim...

Originally posted by Cunobelin Of Hippo
Keep the conversation relevent to the forum, or it's going to be closed. If it's not about Korea, don't post it

ok, korea is hosting the world cup openings
can't wait for it to kickoff!! so to hell with you western....
late nights for you football fans!

ps. american football is actually more like rugby with armor
so why don't they call it american rugby? [joking]

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by akinkhoo
i can ensure you there are more
chinese gamer than you know!

those stat can't provide a proper picture.
games usually reach our shore slowly.
so we tend to IMPORT our games.

Game piracy is also more prevalent in SE Asia than S Korea. Blizzard sold a mil copies of Starcraft in S Korea. I doubt they sold 10k in all of SE Asia.

chinese population in asean alone is
more than that of korea as a whole.

Pop of N and S Korea = 70-80 million.

Pop of ASEAN Chinese : -

Indonesia 10 mil at the very most
M'sia 6 mil
S'pore 3 mil
Thailand 3-5 mil
Philippines 2-3 mil?

Hardly comparable, not? Pls show me statistics if you still think otherwise.

but this isn't the point
the point is korea is important and culturally unique.

No argument there; Korea is unique and shld be incl.

so korea should stay! it is historically important in asia.
korea was already a country when china was unified by Qin.
Korea history is THAT long....

The first Korean state was Koguryo, but can't remember when was that. I think it's sometime after the fall of the Han though.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by akinkhoo
i believe asean 'native' (not me) were true to their land.... they were great seafarer (and fisherman) with little relation to the outside world until they traded with the arab and become muslim...

Going OT (sorry Hippo ), the Malays came fr S China 2500 years ago; the first wave of migration at any rate. Until today, there're still Malay tribes in Taiwan and Vietnam, along their immigration path into the SE Asian islands. Also I don't doubt there's some Malay legacy in the genetic pool of the Japanese as well, but very diluted.

Just FYI.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by akinkhoo
those stat can't provide a proper picture.
games usually reach our shore slowly.
so we tend to IMPORT our games.

Not in Singapore. I got my Civ3 much earlier than the Europeans and Japanese as I remembered it.

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by akinkhoo

ps. american football is actually more like rugby with armor
so why don't they call it american rugby? [joking]

I guess it kinda is, but with less rules, and with umpires with microphones? why do they need armor anyway? If they didn't wear those silly helmets they wouldn't need it. also the tights?? the rugby players play a lot harder and they don't need anything. Not too many injuries neither. Have any of you guys seen Aussie rules tho? Much better. Ok that was a little off topic.

Back on the topic: I think we settled the debate over whether korea is a unique culture. Most people agree that it is. The question is whether it has enough going for it to warrant being included in the expansion.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by bobgote
Back on the topic: I think we settled the debate over whether korea is a unique culture. Most people agree that it is. The question is whether it has enough going for it to warrant being included in the expansion.

A market of 55 million ppl is a good enough reason for Infogrammes and Firaxis. <shrugs> Esp considering past successes like Starcraft and Diablo2 in that particular mkt.

 

[bobgote]

I was hoping for a non- RW commercial reason

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by bobgote
I was hoping for a non- RW commercial reason

Well, this is how the real world works. And why we're getting MP in an Xpack.

 

[stationery2]

I'll tell you what I know about Corea.
First, anthropologically, Coreans and Chinese are totally different people.
I don't know about chinese, but coreans originated from central asia and share the same root with mongolian, turkish, manchurian etc, but not with chinese . Also, japanese is basically extension of coreans. The japanese royal family is probably a corean descendent.
Corea was around from at least 5000 years ago. About the same age as China or a bit later. The first corean nation verified is called Chosun (they put 'Old' chosun to this nation to differenciate it with later 'chosun', because the later one used the name to claim its originality.) Note that I said 'verified'. There is a chinese record (a legend possiblely) of an ancient nation called Baedal, a corean nation. Coreans still call themselves 'the people of Baedal'. We don't know for sure if this nation existed. You know you can't take legends at a face value. But Since there is a record of it, many people believe that there WAS something, probably a nation built by coreans, but they are not sure what it might have been. (You know, far eastern history is so much distorted because of chinese's pride and japanese trying to hide their past.) Some theories even say that Coreans were actually who built china and when coreans lost in the power struggle, they were forced in the peninsula. Not like Dragon-Knight said in this forum, Goguryo comes much later than Chosun. It's not even second corean state. (of course it's not even third or fourth and so on... I'm not sure.)
This Chosun is believed to have ruled most part of china, korean peninsula, mongolia and southern part of present day russia and even more.
Corea lost much of it's power after that and had to be sort of under china for some time.
Anyway, the point I tired to make was that coreans and chinese are TOTALLY different. Yes, they got influences and buildings look similar. But linguistically, culturally, anthropologically, ethnically, they are totally different.
bobgote, I hope you now know more about the relationship between Corea and China.

 

[Loopy]

Originally posted by calgacus
Mexico differs though because it is clearly foreign to the USA and Canada.

Do you really think there's that much of a difference in the people between El Paso, Texas and Ciudad Juarez, MX? In terms of language, culture, currency, or even how people dress and look? Or any of the border towns?

I think all these other geographic locales are on topic. People bring up Canada and Mexico because they relate to the American Civ as the Korean relate to the Chinese and Japanese Civs.

Commercial marketing reasons aside, the Americans deserve their own civ because they are dominating an era like any other civs have done. Besides, aren't we all typing in American here (aka crappy English)?

 

[akinkhoo]

Originally posted by stationery2
I'll tell you what I know about Corea.
First, anthropologically, Coreans and Chinese are totally different people.
I don't know about chinese, but coreans originated from central asia and share the same root with mongolian, turkish, manchurian etc, but not with chinese . Also, japanese is basically extension of coreans. The japanese royal family is probably a corean descendent.
Corea was around from at least 5000 years ago. About the same age as China or a bit later. The first corean nation verified is called Chosun (they put 'Old' chosun to this nation to differenciate it with later 'chosun', because the later one used the name to claim its originality.) Note that I said 'verified'. There is a chinese record (a legend possiblely) of an ancient nation called Baedal, a corean nation. Coreans still call themselves 'the people of Baedal'. We don't know for sure if this nation existed. You know you can't take legends at a face value. But Since there is a record of it, many people believe that there WAS something, probably a nation built by coreans, but they are not sure what it might have been. (You know, far eastern history is so much distorted because of chinese's pride and japanese trying to hide their past.) Some theories even say that Coreans were actually who built china and when coreans lost in the power struggle, they were forced in the peninsula. Not like Dragon-Knight said in this forum, Goguryo comes much later than Chosun. It's not even second corean state. (of course it's not even third or fourth and so on... I'm not sure.)
This Chosun is believed to have ruled most part of china, korean peninsula, mongolia and southern part of present day russia and even more.
Corea lost much of it's power after that and had to be sort of under china for some time.
Anyway, the point I tired to make was that coreans and chinese are TOTALLY different. Yes, they got influences and buildings look similar. But linguistically, culturally, anthropologically, ethnically, they are totally different.
bobgote, I hope you now know more about the relationship between Corea and China.

thank you for supporting the arguement

regarding china's pride distorting history etc....
chinese history record the existance of a state at korea.
"it was a civilized culture with build-up city."
(which I don't see how it serve chinese pride, so I assume it was true)

why Qin didn't invade korea when his army conquer the northern chinese state?
maybe there was an anicent state with equal power.
maybe the barbaries ownz the land and force Qin to connect the Great Wall...

So I will go take a look at the great wall and see if it make sense,
assuming the wall represent the chinese nothern border

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by Loopy


Commercial marketing reasons aside, the Americans deserve their own civ because they are dominating an era like any other civs have done. Besides, aren't we all typing in American here (aka crappy English)?

I think that you are a very silly person. It's english, not american and we're typing in english even tho you may be typing in american english. That's probably the biggest mark the British Empire left on the world, the most widespread language. I doubt America will leave such a mark, nor be the alleged "dominating" civ. I think it's a bit early to say that. Just because they're the loudest, doesn't mean they dominate anything. I think you'll find the EU to be the next big thing.

Also, thanks for the background info on korea. I understand as I said before that it is a unique civilization. My question remains that there may be other civs that may be more fitting to be included.