Why did they add X if Y never occurs?

[apocalypse105]

I've tried playing around with defensive pacts in games to try and get an idea of what they mean. I know that if you sign one while at war with a different A.I, the A.I you signed it with does not declare war on the enemy A.I. If you have an existing defensive pact and declare on another A.I, the civ you signed with will not declare war. The only situation that I haven't had is being declared war on while I had a Def.Pact with an A.I. I'm not sure but assume that they would then go in the war on your behalf, because otherwise the Def.Pact is just totally pointless and means nothing. I've tried to provoke this scenario, but never with any luck.

defencive pacts come early in civ 5(compared to civ 4) but you have to use them later in the game.

When you have picked sides(DOF and denouncements) and you know wich AI backstab and wich don't

It is mostly only usefull on continent maps where you know which AI will likly atack you and who doesn't

 

[Peng Qi]

I get Defensive Pacts all the time? You just have to be of some value to the person you're proposing it to and there needs to be some third, big threat to them.

Declarations of Friendship are only useful if you create webs out of them; if one of the people in it backstabs you, the others are going to insta-hate that backstabber, and the rest of the world doesn't take too kindly to it either. They're not particularly useful if you're playing on a low difficulty, however, because you are quite likely to be in the lead and the AI doesn't like cooperating with whoever is currently winning.

 

[wannabewarlord]

All right, new question:
4. Why do we need another rants thread?

This.

Lately every thread that manages to somehow ask a question about the game turns into a rants thread, reiterating the same things over and over. And with no surprise, it is always the same people jumping on the bandwagon (guilty as charged, but like the opposite way!). Hasn't the cool-aid ran out yet?

 

[TyBoy]

I have had the don't settle near me thing work in situations where it is actually useful. I can't remember too many specifics beyond that it wasn't a beaten civ, they said OK when I demanded it and they didn't settle the spot I was trying to keep them out of before I ended up settling it. I can't actually say if they were going to settle the spot if I hadn't demanded they keep away, but they were my neighbors so it was definitely a candidate. Immortal difficulty.

 

[qec]

I've got the Defensive Pacts by playing peacefully and trading with the A.I lots. I've always been the one to propose it and usually put a lot of other stuff in the trade agreement, like R.A and Lux Resource swap etc., plus have a long running DoF with the target A.I. Once the A.I are ready to accept the Def.Pact it becomes easier because then you can just ask 'What do you want for this?' and its usually not much, if anything, they demand. Like I say, I've basically just done this to investigate the point of the Def.Pact, so I've accepted some bad deals the A.I wanted for the pact. Once or twice I have actively pursued the Def.Pact because I was small and going for a Cult. Victory with an imposing A.I nearby.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

The fact that it IS actually possible to get a defensive pact and those other pointless features (including diplomacy) gives me the impression they never tested these or just have a completely inaccurate idea of how people play this game.
If you play above prince your enemies will almost always have a higher military score, their spam difficulties essentially make it impossible to do a lot of things because so much in diplomacy is based on military score. Effectively destroying their own improvements with bad all round programming.

 

[headcase]

Defensive Pacts are pretty problematic, perhaps realistically so (comparing with humans playing each other); they're reluctant to do so unless you're already stronger than them and have weaker enemies than them (in other words, all the risk is on your side).

At least the mechanic itself is largely stable, so mods can have at it.

 

[apocalypse105]

Defensive Pacts are pretty problematic, perhaps realistically so (comparing with humans playing each other); they're reluctant to do so unless you're already stronger than them and have weaker enemies than them (in other words, all the risk is on your side).

At least the mechanic itself is largely stable, so mods can have at it.

The problem with defencive patc in civ 5 at higher diffculties is that the AI is to agressive


It seams the programmers decided that to make the game more diffuclt lets make the AI more diffcult and let him backstab more wich doesn"t make for a fun gameplay experience because you are forced to go domination

 

[headcase]

The problem with defencive patc in civ 5 at higher diffculties is that the AI is to agressive

Yup. The root issue is that the AI can't effectively play the game and to compensate is given ridiculous handicaps allowing them to expand more rapidly, carpet the world in units, then feel you're an easy target, and certainly not worthy of a defensive pact with them.

 

[AvoidtheBoyd]

3. liberated civs: beats me!

I believe that if you liberate a civ they will always vote for you in the UN, no matter how hostile they are.

 

[Gamewizard]

Maybe the liberated Civ is just upset that you resurrected them from the dead to sit through a game they cannot win. I know I would be mad if I had to sit through an entire game of Civ knowing there was 0% chance for victory.

 

[Tokira]

I believe that if you liberate a civ they will always vote for you in the UN, no matter how hostile they are.

It is true. However, it makes little sense to me that they usually hate you even though without your actions they wouldn't even exist.

 

[Peng Qi]

It is true. However, it makes little sense to me that they usually hate you even though without your actions they wouldn't even exist.

Yeah, honestly I'd like it if liberated Civs worked a lot more like Vassals from Civ IV; beholden to more of your whims, forced into wars you're in, etc. etc.

In fact, if they became like bigger Allied City States or Puppets, the problem of them being stuck in ancient tech could be fixed by them just getting all of your tech for free, since who cares if some piddly little Civ that's completely under your thumb has all your tech?

 

[Gucumatz]

Well I like making defensive pacts in Multiplayer, makes people think twice before warring a pair of somewhat nearby civs