@ robbus Buy and read carefully if not memorize the Civ 3 Stategy guide. Once you understand the way the game works its easy up until Emperor level when the AI starts getting significant advantages over you. At the lower levels, you have every advantage, so with the proper knowledge it should be a breeze.
why do I stink at civ3?
- Thread starter robbus
- Start date
tR1cKy
taking over the world
OP: i loaded the first of your save (1525 bc) and i have to say that you'll need to address your opening mistakes before dealing with the middle or late game. Only ONE worker? That's absolutely too few. I'd say four is the appropriate amount at that time.
Moreover, you built barracks too early. They're not of any use at that moment, they just sap money. And hoplite are useless as well. You need nothing but a bunch of regular warriors, to explore, fight barbs and act as a military police. Once you've setup a core of productive cities, then it's barracks and units time.
The granary in Sparta is also useless. You just need the one in Athens, but you should chop the trees in the game tiles and bring irrigation there, then Athens would act as a good settler pump, but given the small space you're in, i doubt it's really worth the effort. Probably it's better to just build a core, build barracks around, roll out units and go war-frenzy.
Moreover, you built barracks too early. They're not of any use at that moment, they just sap money. And hoplite are useless as well. You need nothing but a bunch of regular warriors, to explore, fight barbs and act as a military police. Once you've setup a core of productive cities, then it's barracks and units time.
The granary in Sparta is also useless. You just need the one in Athens, but you should chop the trees in the game tiles and bring irrigation there, then Athens would act as a good settler pump, but given the small space you're in, i doubt it's really worth the effort. Probably it's better to just build a core, build barracks around, roll out units and go war-frenzy.
The game really changes after Monarchy, but up through Monarchy, here are my tips:
workers
2 workers per city is decent. I use less/more depending on the number of hills or mountains to work. This doesn't mean you should keep 1 or 2 workers at each city, or even make sure there are no tiles being worked by the city that haven't been improved. It gives you the ability, though, to fast work terrain around cities to which you have assigned a tactical purpose (military, wonder, settler or worker factory), and to rush roads. KEEP YOUR CITIES CONNECTED.
Graneries are expensive. Try to chop some forest when building them, but not a forest being worked by the city. Also, coastal cities tend to enjoy forest love. Plant some forests near cities with low shield production.
As a rule of thumb, I never have a worker leave a tile without first making sure a road is there.
I never disband my workers. They are extremely useful in late-game wars.
Upgrading Units
I always upgrade units. Disbanding them is horribly inefficient. This game is all about efficiency. The more efficient you are at your empire-building, the more success you will have. If I have a few random scouts out far from home, and that region of the map is revealed to me, then I might disband those units.
I disagree with an earlier post - every army is being used. The other civs are aware of how strong your army is, and it affects their treatment of you. I try to avoid building archers/swordsmen though - I don't like their upgrades. That said,its good to have at least one longbowman out when you get invention, because other civs will give you more respect.
Destroying cities
I will destroy a city if there is city crowding, or if I want to move the city one or two tiles over. Rush pop the settler (wait one turn for the cost to drop). Often the ai will build a city one tile away from the coast, preventing harbors/ports/offshore.
Destroying a city creates a lot of hate from the ai.
Culture
Culture expands your borders. Pushing culture early on can prevent other civs from building annoying cities within what you consider your terrain. Once you can rush buy buildings with gold, I often buy temples and libraries to close up gaps in my borders (and harbors).
Embassies
Embassies can be very useful. As mentioned, they boost your rep. They also let you know where another civ is located if you don't know where e it is, but need to know. I tend to get them quick with civs I meet early on, so I know where city encroachment is likely to occur. You will often find yourself racing to build a city near vital resources, or find another civ is trying to rope off your expansion.
Are you trying to get a military alliance without first declaring war on the enemy civ yourself? If so, I've never seen that work.
Yes, you do need an embassy for intelligence missions. IMO intelligence missions are a waste of gold. I don't even bother planting spies.
Other
If you are having a rough time, I suggest you conquer a civ that is close to you and roughly the same size as yours fairly early in the game. Early on I would do nothing but pop spear and settlers and expand like crazy. Get some workers out and focus on one or two cites until you have 3 or 4 tiles worked at each, then move them on to the next city. Concentrate on cities that can recieve good production boosts with less work (read: bonus grassland, floodplains, plains).
Alternate from one city to the next, leaving off settler production for infrastructure for a single building then going back to settler production, or the lack of infrastructure will catch up with you. Don't be afraid to settle far away if it means gaining a resource.
Once you have ten cities or so, assign a city to workers, and a couple to units (the two with the highest shield capacity). Hopefully you have some cities on rivers so you don't need aquaducts. If there is room for more cities, keep popping settlers, but shift your main focus from settlers to markets/temples/libraries. If you are ready for war, or at war, shift your focus to units in cities with good production - keep going for infrastructure in less productive cities.
I keep at least two units in every city. This may be a rarity though.
If you are having trouble taking cities, start using artillery from cannons on.
Edit: RoPs
Try to avoid them. Offhand I can think of only two reasons to have them: 1) I need to move my troops very quickly through another civ's territory, or 2) I'm promoting a war between two civs that are on opposing sides of me, and want to speed up the troop movement for one side. A possible 3) might be to create one of several types of traps for another civ. If I enter into a RoP, I try to end it asap.
workers
2 workers per city is decent. I use less/more depending on the number of hills or mountains to work. This doesn't mean you should keep 1 or 2 workers at each city, or even make sure there are no tiles being worked by the city that haven't been improved. It gives you the ability, though, to fast work terrain around cities to which you have assigned a tactical purpose (military, wonder, settler or worker factory), and to rush roads. KEEP YOUR CITIES CONNECTED.
Graneries are expensive. Try to chop some forest when building them, but not a forest being worked by the city. Also, coastal cities tend to enjoy forest love. Plant some forests near cities with low shield production.
As a rule of thumb, I never have a worker leave a tile without first making sure a road is there.
I never disband my workers. They are extremely useful in late-game wars.
Upgrading Units
I always upgrade units. Disbanding them is horribly inefficient. This game is all about efficiency. The more efficient you are at your empire-building, the more success you will have. If I have a few random scouts out far from home, and that region of the map is revealed to me, then I might disband those units.
I disagree with an earlier post - every army is being used. The other civs are aware of how strong your army is, and it affects their treatment of you. I try to avoid building archers/swordsmen though - I don't like their upgrades. That said,its good to have at least one longbowman out when you get invention, because other civs will give you more respect.
Destroying cities
I will destroy a city if there is city crowding, or if I want to move the city one or two tiles over. Rush pop the settler (wait one turn for the cost to drop). Often the ai will build a city one tile away from the coast, preventing harbors/ports/offshore.
Destroying a city creates a lot of hate from the ai.
Culture
Culture expands your borders. Pushing culture early on can prevent other civs from building annoying cities within what you consider your terrain. Once you can rush buy buildings with gold, I often buy temples and libraries to close up gaps in my borders (and harbors).
Embassies
Embassies can be very useful. As mentioned, they boost your rep. They also let you know where another civ is located if you don't know where e it is, but need to know. I tend to get them quick with civs I meet early on, so I know where city encroachment is likely to occur. You will often find yourself racing to build a city near vital resources, or find another civ is trying to rope off your expansion.
Are you trying to get a military alliance without first declaring war on the enemy civ yourself? If so, I've never seen that work.
Yes, you do need an embassy for intelligence missions. IMO intelligence missions are a waste of gold. I don't even bother planting spies.
Other
If you are having a rough time, I suggest you conquer a civ that is close to you and roughly the same size as yours fairly early in the game. Early on I would do nothing but pop spear and settlers and expand like crazy. Get some workers out and focus on one or two cites until you have 3 or 4 tiles worked at each, then move them on to the next city. Concentrate on cities that can recieve good production boosts with less work (read: bonus grassland, floodplains, plains).
Alternate from one city to the next, leaving off settler production for infrastructure for a single building then going back to settler production, or the lack of infrastructure will catch up with you. Don't be afraid to settle far away if it means gaining a resource.
Once you have ten cities or so, assign a city to workers, and a couple to units (the two with the highest shield capacity). Hopefully you have some cities on rivers so you don't need aquaducts. If there is room for more cities, keep popping settlers, but shift your main focus from settlers to markets/temples/libraries. If you are ready for war, or at war, shift your focus to units in cities with good production - keep going for infrastructure in less productive cities.
I keep at least two units in every city. This may be a rarity though.
If you are having trouble taking cities, start using artillery from cannons on.
Edit: RoPs
Try to avoid them. Offhand I can think of only two reasons to have them: 1) I need to move my troops very quickly through another civ's territory, or 2) I'm promoting a war between two civs that are on opposing sides of me, and want to speed up the troop movement for one side. A possible 3) might be to create one of several types of traps for another civ. If I enter into a RoP, I try to end it asap.
robbus
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2005
- Messages
- 208
thanks for the responses.
For those of you that care to respond here is an update:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ijmcy1dscw2159z
I got thrashed by the vikings, it was comical; my cavalry charges into walls of infantry!
I am in a new game and seem to be doing better. Maybe I have learned somethinG.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
My capitol is straining at pop'n. I had to wait to produce aqueduct.
Is there any way to make sparta my capitol?
Any other comments?
For those of you that care to respond here is an update:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ijmcy1dscw2159z
I got thrashed by the vikings, it was comical; my cavalry charges into walls of infantry!
I am in a new game and seem to be doing better. Maybe I have learned somethinG.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
My capitol is straining at pop'n. I had to wait to produce aqueduct.
Is there any way to make sparta my capitol?
Any other comments?
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
I didn't realize at first there was two different games, but here goes:
1914 AD save-
Pharsalos and Sabratha is built on a cow, so you get no benefit from them. Your citizens should work on a cow, but the city itself should not be built on bonus food resources.
Democracy is not a good government to start a war with unless it was going to be a short war and for a short war you want an overwhelming attack force. Republic is almost as good as democracy and you can fight wars for much longer before you have unhappy people.
Artillery! Even cannons would be nice. If you have a stack of 20 artillery/cannons and 10 cavalry (more cavs would be better) you could steamroll the AI on regent (also throw a few rifleman into the initial attack force to absorb their initial counter-attack). You use your artillery/cannons to bombard a city and knocking each defending unit down to 1 hp then use your cavalry to attack the 1 hp unit and you will win many more fights. You can even bombard the other city down to population 1 which will get rid of any defense bonuses that cities and metropolises get (and destroying the walls) and it won't take long to stop the revolting citizens since there is only 1 if you want to keep the city. If you can't bombard the units down to 1 hp then you need more artillery.
Ephesus is under no threat from attack (you'll have plenty of warning if they are attacking there) and with democracy having no need for military police he has no reason to be there. Send the troop there to a coastal city or send him with the attack force.
1 shield cities building rifleman is a no-no. Your not going to wait 70 turns for something another city can build in 5 turns or less. Bring troops from other cities to those cities if they need troops.
Harbors would be good for some cities. Yes, the water tiles have no shields but they are great for gold.
16 workers for 22 cities is too few, that is why every tile is not yet improved.
Germany will trade his world map for yours. That will reveal most of the land on the map. Getting the other maps is too hard right now.
310 AD (different game)
Athens is not working a cow?
Irrigated grassland by Sparta was worthless under despot unless you were going to bring the irrigation over to the cows by athens, which you don't appear to be doing (or at least irrigated the wheat right next to that irrigated tile), which would have been nice earlier when the city was growing but now that you are size 11 it won't help as much.
Granaries can be expensive, but almost always worth it. With no bonus food (+2 food, so 10 turns per population increase for a town and 20 turns for a city), it takes a size 1 town to get to size 12:
Without granary: 170 turns
With granary: 95 turns
Or you could grow just as fast but choose higher shield tiles rather than being forced to choose the higher food tiles (With a granary you can work a mined hill tile and grow just as fast as not having a granary and choosing an coast or sea tile in a city that has a harbor.
I bumped luxury up to 30% from 20% and was able to fire all the entertainers. Income stayed the same (-17 gold) but with more tiles being worked production was boosted 10% (from what was 203 up to 217 or 221 depending on what tiles I choose to work).
Delphi and Argos should be building a harbor, not wealth. Knossos stuck at size 2 shouldn't build an aqueduct. Build a harbor so it can grow bigger and then when it's stuck at size 6 you can switch the citizens from the water tiles to the shield tiles to help you build the aqueduct quicker.
I've got a Regent SG started up if you would be interested in joining (RSG3.5) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455681
The collaborative discussions on a shared game might prove helpful. I suspect that by the time we are done you would be confortable at Regent and looking to move up. Sounds like we have viking neighbors and a little payback is always nice.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Let me second that thought.
Raliuven's SG just got started; we are at Turn 30 in the game.
SGs are played in groups of ten turns. So even if you are not comfortable with a full length game at Regent, you can survive 10 turns.
Or you could down the various saved games, decide what you would do in the next 10 turns, and then compare that to what the team decides to do.
But you'll get more out of the experience by being part of the discussion.
Raliuven's SG just got started; we are at Turn 30 in the game.
SGs are played in groups of ten turns. So even if you are not comfortable with a full length game at Regent, you can survive 10 turns.
Or you could down the various saved games, decide what you would do in the next 10 turns, and then compare that to what the team decides to do.
But you'll get more out of the experience by being part of the discussion.
I'd third Raliuven's suggestion: following succession games is how I jumped from struggling at Warlord to winning Monarch games in a short period of time.
splunge the 2nd
King
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 741
I like embassies to investigate cities. If you want to take a city and gain a wonder, it's nice to know if they're 3 turns away or 30. Also, alliances need embassies, right.
Ater reading lots of "what am I doing wrong" threads (including my own, of course) the answers are typically 1) not enough workers and underdeveloping tiles 2)building unecessary improvements 3) too many defensive units in too many cities 4)staying in despotism
Ater reading lots of "what am I doing wrong" threads (including my own, of course) the answers are typically 1) not enough workers and underdeveloping tiles 2)building unecessary improvements 3) too many defensive units in too many cities 4)staying in despotism
tR1cKy
taking over the world
I'd say they are the most common mistakes of those still in the learning curve.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
The 1914 AD save actually wasn't that bad. Well, of course there is room for improvement, but I think it can be saved and turned into a win (domination or conquest). Start pumping out artillery and upgrade those rifles. I'll see if I can do it (it will take a while).
robbus
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2005
- Messages
- 208
there should be new game attached.
I discovered an island and populated it with 6 cities. But they are not that productive.
Should I "wealth" them all?
I am avoiding democracy because of the hassle of managing happiness evey turn. Is this correct?
Should I abandon southern island of Shantung? I conquered it while at one of my frequent wars? I don't think it is helping me and cavalry better used elsewhere. What does this do to my reputation if I abbandon my own city?
I plan to take over scandinavia abd germany. But are mongols just siitng back and getting stronger? They have really high population compared to me.
I have made many furious enemies and am concerned that game will time out befor I can defeat the other civs.
Anyway I appreciate your insightful comments.
I am concerned that the enemies I have made will vote me a loser when the game "times out".
I discovered an island and populated it with 6 cities. But they are not that productive.
Should I "wealth" them all?
I am avoiding democracy because of the hassle of managing happiness evey turn. Is this correct?
Should I abandon southern island of Shantung? I conquered it while at one of my frequent wars? I don't think it is helping me and cavalry better used elsewhere. What does this do to my reputation if I abbandon my own city?
I plan to take over scandinavia abd germany. But are mongols just siitng back and getting stronger? They have really high population compared to me.
I have made many furious enemies and am concerned that game will time out befor I can defeat the other civs.
Anyway I appreciate your insightful comments.
I am concerned that the enemies I have made will vote me a loser when the game "times out".
"I discovered an island and populated it with 6 cities. But they are not that productive.
Should I "wealth" them all?"
That is fine, if this is C3C try to make as many scientist as you can in each town.
"I am avoiding democracy because of the hassle of managing happiness evey turn. Is this correct?"
I never used Demo after vanilla. It requires optional techs that I do not research or trade for. Happiness is not really affected, except by war any more than say being in a Republic form of goverment.
"Should I abandon southern island of Shantung? I conquered it while at one of my frequent wars? I don't think it is helping me and cavalry better used elsewhere. What does this do to my reputation if I abbandon my own city?"
Did not look at the save so all I can say is that iof the town is contiguous I would keep it and get a farm going. Your rep is not a function of abandoning that affects their attitude iirc.
"I plan to take over scandinavia abd germany. But are mongols just siitng back and getting stronger? They have really high population compared to me."
Not sure how they are going to get stronger, if you are annexing more land. The pie is so big and as you add to your portion, they should not being doing so as well. If you are smaller and behind in techs, then they could be improving.
Pop is not important at this stage, except for score. Troops are important and especially armies.
"I have made many furious enemies and am concerned that game will time out befor I can defeat the other civs."
You have till 2050AD or until another victory conditionis met. Most likely is a vote. Get leaders, make armies and whack someone.
"I am concerned that the enemies I have made will vote me a loser when the game "times out"."
At 2050AD the game ends, no votes. Just the highest score wins. F8 will show you where you stand on the score.
Should I "wealth" them all?"
That is fine, if this is C3C try to make as many scientist as you can in each town.
"I am avoiding democracy because of the hassle of managing happiness evey turn. Is this correct?"
I never used Demo after vanilla. It requires optional techs that I do not research or trade for. Happiness is not really affected, except by war any more than say being in a Republic form of goverment.
"Should I abandon southern island of Shantung? I conquered it while at one of my frequent wars? I don't think it is helping me and cavalry better used elsewhere. What does this do to my reputation if I abbandon my own city?"
Did not look at the save so all I can say is that iof the town is contiguous I would keep it and get a farm going. Your rep is not a function of abandoning that affects their attitude iirc.
"I plan to take over scandinavia abd germany. But are mongols just siitng back and getting stronger? They have really high population compared to me."
Not sure how they are going to get stronger, if you are annexing more land. The pie is so big and as you add to your portion, they should not being doing so as well. If you are smaller and behind in techs, then they could be improving.
Pop is not important at this stage, except for score. Troops are important and especially armies.
"I have made many furious enemies and am concerned that game will time out befor I can defeat the other civs."
You have till 2050AD or until another victory conditionis met. Most likely is a vote. Get leaders, make armies and whack someone.
"I am concerned that the enemies I have made will vote me a loser when the game "times out"."
At 2050AD the game ends, no votes. Just the highest score wins. F8 will show you where you stand on the score.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Just looked at the 1774 AD save.
Your non-core cities (not your starting island), sure go ahead, it's not that important of a decision if they are a one (non corrupt) shield city. A four shield city on the other hand.....producing wealth it will only get 1 gold, the same as a 1 shield city gets, I would try and see if there wasn't something a four shield city could be working on rather than wealth. 1 shield cities I will build workers, but you seem to have enough (your core cities are built up, and the other islands it isn't that important if every tile is improved because they are so corrupt).
If you were doing a peaceful, space race or diplomatic game then maybe democracy would be worth it. In your game now republic is better for you, but you are getting war weariness (WW) now so you still need to manage happiness every turn, but it's not as bad as democracy would be. If you like constant warfare then maybe monarchy will be better. It doesn't have the income that republic has, but you can wage non-stop war and never lose production because of WW. Keeping up in tech can sometimes be a little trickier though.
That's a Chinese citizen...("Entertainer (China)" when hovering the mouse over him), so while it is 'your' city, I believe it will affect your rep if you abandon the city (will be the same as razing an opponent's city).
Everyone's 'Furious' with you anyways, I don't think it matters anymore if they get even more mad.
Shantung does have iron and you have only 1 other resource. What happens if you lose your only source? And someone else will gladly snatch up that iron if you don't keep it. I'd send a defensive unit down there to switch places with the cav.
They have a couple of bigger cities, but overall you have a higher population according to the victory screen. Don't let the big metropolises fool you into thinking they are better than they are (but respect their defense bonus so bombard that metro down in size).
If it does go to 2050 you will get the victory (barring you don't have an epic collapse). Your worry now is someone building the UN. If you can build it then just don't hold a vote.
Other notes:
Why are workers sleeping in Pharsalos when you have tiles on that continent that are not railroaded?
Where is your attack force? It's not the 4 units in Celt territory is it? That won't get very far.
Knossos is a good example of why you are having money problems. At size 4 with so many improvements, it's only paying for them and not helping to fund your military, just building it. You have a harbor there, so use it. Take the citizens off the mined hills and work the coast tiles. By this point in the game it should be size 12 at least. Pergamon can take over that coal hill to help build a harbor (and a mined grassland nobody is using rather than working 2 coast tiles that have 1 food and no shields) and let it grow past size 5.
Your non-core cities (not your starting island), sure go ahead, it's not that important of a decision if they are a one (non corrupt) shield city. A four shield city on the other hand.....producing wealth it will only get 1 gold, the same as a 1 shield city gets, I would try and see if there wasn't something a four shield city could be working on rather than wealth. 1 shield cities I will build workers, but you seem to have enough (your core cities are built up, and the other islands it isn't that important if every tile is improved because they are so corrupt).
If you were doing a peaceful, space race or diplomatic game then maybe democracy would be worth it. In your game now republic is better for you, but you are getting war weariness (WW) now so you still need to manage happiness every turn, but it's not as bad as democracy would be. If you like constant warfare then maybe monarchy will be better. It doesn't have the income that republic has, but you can wage non-stop war and never lose production because of WW. Keeping up in tech can sometimes be a little trickier though.
That's a Chinese citizen...("Entertainer (China)" when hovering the mouse over him), so while it is 'your' city, I believe it will affect your rep if you abandon the city (will be the same as razing an opponent's city).
Everyone's 'Furious' with you anyways, I don't think it matters anymore if they get even more mad.
Shantung does have iron and you have only 1 other resource. What happens if you lose your only source? And someone else will gladly snatch up that iron if you don't keep it. I'd send a defensive unit down there to switch places with the cav.
They have a couple of bigger cities, but overall you have a higher population according to the victory screen. Don't let the big metropolises fool you into thinking they are better than they are (but respect their defense bonus so bombard that metro down in size).
If it does go to 2050 you will get the victory (barring you don't have an epic collapse). Your worry now is someone building the UN. If you can build it then just don't hold a vote.
Other notes:
Why are workers sleeping in Pharsalos when you have tiles on that continent that are not railroaded?
Where is your attack force? It's not the 4 units in Celt territory is it? That won't get very far.
Knossos is a good example of why you are having money problems. At size 4 with so many improvements, it's only paying for them and not helping to fund your military, just building it. You have a harbor there, so use it. Take the citizens off the mined hills and work the coast tiles. By this point in the game it should be size 12 at least. Pergamon can take over that coal hill to help build a harbor (and a mined grassland nobody is using rather than working 2 coast tiles that have 1 food and no shields) and let it grow past size 5.
Some feedback on 17xxAD:
First I see this is vanilla, so no unit support under Republic. Been years since I played vanilla, but no unit support is painful. Vanilla means Demo is a viable government compared to Republic. Need to check the traits as many changed.
Also tech tree is different, but at this point it probably does not matter about either changes. It means that using specialist is not nearly as useful.
Check trades and wonder why we are giving a lux to Temen? I guess you were sweating war or wanted to end one you were in with Khan. This is Regent and they are not on your landmass, ergo they cannot do anything to bother you.
You have Steam, so any landings are just fishing opportunities for you.
That lux is basically you helping to support his empire, why would you want to do that? Attitude with the AI is no longer of use to you as they all furious. I have not checked your rep, but I would not be shocked to find it is broken.
I do not break my rep on purpose. However it probably is not an issue now as I would not be making any per turn deals using gold on my part.
UN one way they could beat you. I think space is not a concern. You could build the UN eventually to ensure they cannot vote you out. I would suspect the UN is not worry as I would bet Khan has no friends either and would not call a vote.
You are going broke as you pay 118gpt for support. Paying iirc 130gpt for maint. Running a mere 30% research. In short you are not doing well with the empire management. We can only reduce unit cost by disbanding units or switching governments.
We may be able to reduce maint by sell some useless structures. Mainly we need to increase the income. So you cannot lose, if you do not make a major mistake. You can win by just playing to the year 2050. You can win sooner by domination, if that is enabled. Conquest would be possible as all the land is on the other continent.
Once you get a foothold there and start taking down towns, you could take them all out as they have few towns.
I would normally (C3C) turn many places into science farms, but in vanilla they are only 1/3 as productive. Still that may be better than what some are doing now. They have basically no gold and you have little to offer.
Let me take a moment to suggest you consider getting C3C. The interface is better, it has more options. It has MP function. Best of all better and more mods to use. Some like CCM make the game seem like a new expansion pack.
Enough on that.
I guess the first goal is to take all the continent that has the Celts. Then to find a way to get on the last continent. If you want to do that by taking on Mao, then you probably will take that island of theirs.
The biggest threat will be bombers, once they arrive all of these things will be harder.
You have 39 towns and 32 native workers, that is one of the reasons your empire is not up to speed. 13 slaves is far too low for this point in the game IMO. You have steam, so you would like to get rails up quickly everywhere.
I would want to have enough labor to improve any tile that is currently being work. I would think here I would want about 70. This could be any mix of native and slaves. Now I do not recall, if RP provides double speed workers in vanilla or not. (it does)
Troops:
2 muskets
27 rifles
7 cavs
8 inf
1 art
22 hops
1 guerilla
3 caravels
6 galleon
9 ironclads
Basically you have no offensive. 1 bombardment units is crazy. Rails, plus artie means no invasion can work. I would want 4-6 on each landmass that does not keave. That is enough to ping ships and any normal landing party.
Cavs should have been your backbone for defense and offense. Now they have infantry, so even redlined infantry can be hard to kill for cavs.
No army, yes I know leaders can make wonders in vanilla and armies are not as good as in C3C. Still an army can cover a stack like nothing else. The ai will not attack a healthy army. An army is needed to be able to build some structures that will help with war.
No real need for 9 transports up till now as you do not have enough troops to fill them anyway. Ironclads or frigates or any offensive boats do not figure prominently in my game. Reason is that you cannot have enough to cover all the point and only a few are needed to support an invasion.
Your military serves two functions in a Republic. 1) deter aggression 2) capture towns. Normally defenders do neither. Now Hoplites are different as they will deter attacks on towns in the early game.
Vanilla is different in terms of early troops. Horses are often chosen over swords as swords do not upgrade for a long time. In C3C they upgrade to MDI, so they are much better choice.
At Regent you should not be concerned so much about attacks and the AI is very weak. I usually will not build any spears below Emperor. Note that after the first few warriors, no troops should be build outside of a barracks, unless it is really needed.
I see you have Communism and Nationalism and Sanitation. These are all optional techs and I normally would not research them. Better to get to Steam first and then RP. You do not need metros, unless you are going for Space or score. I would not trade for them, unless I got them pretty much for free. I would surely not want to give anyone a required tech, unless they paid dearly.
Current builds in queue: (note this count is not totally accurate, but close enough)
coal plant
inf 9
fact 2
barracks
wealth 9
harbor
aqua
temple 3
wall 3
arty
worker 3
rifle
cav
Looking at the towns:
Athens: this town is size 14 and still does not have a market. This is a huge mistake. You probably could put all those clowns back to work had you built one. I did put one joker on the mine and now the plant will finish next turn.
Shield jumped 5, gold up 3, beakers up 3. You have cost yourself a lot of production and research. A market must be the next build.
Rome:
Sell the wall, a city cannot use one as it gets the same bonus on defense for its size.
Move the citizen from the hill mine to the ivory to gain 1gpt.
Change one joker to either a tax or a scientist.
Here is where lack of workers is hurting your empire. You should get the ivory irrigated and all the grass tiles.
May as well get to size 12 asap and make as many specialist as you can here. You may then be able to sell the temple.
Sparta:
I would switch infantry to arty as you only had 1 and it was a 17 turns to go.
Needs the mine railed. Put 2 jokers on sea duty to gain 4 food, 11 commerce. The commerce breaks down to 9 more gold and 2 beakers. I switch the last joker to tax.
Veii:
Here I see a Chinese clad that could have been pinged, had you a couple of arties. I see right off some workers doing things I do not like. 1 is planting trees near Pisae. That town is not making anything and is corrupt. Why plant trees?
Another tile at Pisae they are cutting trees? What will happen to the shields? It looks like they will go up in smoke as will that stack of workers effort. I take the lone worker and have him finish the chop. Take that bunch and have them finish the rail and irrigate here in Veii.
I take that tile away form Ravenna as it does not need the food. Start irrigation on the wheat. Shuffle pop here to get more specialist, rather than jokers.
Sell wall. Next turn should be able to sell temple. We net 5 gold now here.
We need a rax, so switch to that here.
Move the arty next to capitol so it can be found, when needed.
Rhodes:
Stop build of 87 turn inf and switch to wealth. Turn lone pop to taxman. Note taxmen may need to switch to science, will have to see.
We now will not grow here as they is no reason to anyway. Nothing will be gained here except workers or settlers and we can get settlers elsewhere.
Thermopylae:
Well this place needs to be size 12 right now. I move a pop from the mined plains to the mined hill to gain a shield. I take the irrigated grass from Halicarnassus. Switching the infantry there to a worker.
Going to want to get workers out from someplace to do some tile work and clear pollution, but also to add to Therm.
Add three workers and switch to market.
Camulodunum:
Scrap 2 caravels in Camulodunum. A worker pops up assignment and I see a worker busy nearby. You are at war with Brennus, so that seems risky. No cover either? Workers chop both trees and rail the one tile. Chop another tile next to August...
Set lone pop to tax, no need to grow here.
Shantung:
Switch to wall and joker to tax. May abandon or gift, if it comes under attack.
Augustodurum:
Make two taxmen, while the aqua is built.
Lugdunum:
Sure miss CE's, could speed the rax. Put 1 pop back to work so we can grow.
Verulamium:
Switch to arty.
Megara:
Switch to wealth. Sell wall.
Miletos:
Sell lib as we make zero beakers here and no sense paying maint. Switch wall to wealth.
Sell temple. Make a taxman.
Artemisium:
Switch worker to wealth. We do not really gain a lot from getting tiles improved here, so no reason to pay support for more workers here.
Eretria:
Switch wall to wealth. We have no other civs on the island, so no need for walls. We should have been in a position to deal with any landings and soon will be.
Marathon:
switch temple to arty. Mkae a taxman.
Brundisium:
Put both pop to tax and will let starve down. Sell temple.
Lutetia:
Sell wall.
Sell temple.
Put all to tax.
Pisae:
Sell temple and put all to tax.
Viroconium:
Sell all and put all to tax.
Hispalis:
same
Cumae:
same
Pompeii:
Stop worker and go to wealth. It was waiting to grow as it had enough shields.
Sell wall, lib and temple.
Ravenna:
Sell temple. Need to keep harbor. Make 2 taxmen and once we irrigate wheat and rail we can get another pair.
Syracuse:
sell wall and pop to tax.
Palmyra:
Sell temple and lib. Note no beakers here. Pop to tax and let starve to size 1.
Herakleia"
Switch inf to market. We need some workers here.
Thessalonia:
Here I run into a a problem in that I have no idea how long you have been at war and who started them. The concern is war weariness. This town has a lib, but nets only 3 beakers. That makes it a waste of shields and maint. It could maybe use a market and then it cold sell the temple. Start a market.
Ephesus:
About the same and start a market.
The mainland:
not looked at as you would need to determine the plan ahead. Going to stay at war, just get the continent you are invading now? If war never ending is in the cards, then may want to revolt soon.
Right now the changes get you to 115 gold on hand.+70gpt.
First I see this is vanilla, so no unit support under Republic. Been years since I played vanilla, but no unit support is painful. Vanilla means Demo is a viable government compared to Republic. Need to check the traits as many changed.
Also tech tree is different, but at this point it probably does not matter about either changes. It means that using specialist is not nearly as useful.
Check trades and wonder why we are giving a lux to Temen? I guess you were sweating war or wanted to end one you were in with Khan. This is Regent and they are not on your landmass, ergo they cannot do anything to bother you.
You have Steam, so any landings are just fishing opportunities for you.
That lux is basically you helping to support his empire, why would you want to do that? Attitude with the AI is no longer of use to you as they all furious. I have not checked your rep, but I would not be shocked to find it is broken.
I do not break my rep on purpose. However it probably is not an issue now as I would not be making any per turn deals using gold on my part.
UN one way they could beat you. I think space is not a concern. You could build the UN eventually to ensure they cannot vote you out. I would suspect the UN is not worry as I would bet Khan has no friends either and would not call a vote.
You are going broke as you pay 118gpt for support. Paying iirc 130gpt for maint. Running a mere 30% research. In short you are not doing well with the empire management. We can only reduce unit cost by disbanding units or switching governments.
We may be able to reduce maint by sell some useless structures. Mainly we need to increase the income. So you cannot lose, if you do not make a major mistake. You can win by just playing to the year 2050. You can win sooner by domination, if that is enabled. Conquest would be possible as all the land is on the other continent.
Once you get a foothold there and start taking down towns, you could take them all out as they have few towns.
I would normally (C3C) turn many places into science farms, but in vanilla they are only 1/3 as productive. Still that may be better than what some are doing now. They have basically no gold and you have little to offer.
Let me take a moment to suggest you consider getting C3C. The interface is better, it has more options. It has MP function. Best of all better and more mods to use. Some like CCM make the game seem like a new expansion pack.
Enough on that.
I guess the first goal is to take all the continent that has the Celts. Then to find a way to get on the last continent. If you want to do that by taking on Mao, then you probably will take that island of theirs.
The biggest threat will be bombers, once they arrive all of these things will be harder.
You have 39 towns and 32 native workers, that is one of the reasons your empire is not up to speed. 13 slaves is far too low for this point in the game IMO. You have steam, so you would like to get rails up quickly everywhere.
I would want to have enough labor to improve any tile that is currently being work. I would think here I would want about 70. This could be any mix of native and slaves. Now I do not recall, if RP provides double speed workers in vanilla or not. (it does)
Troops:
2 muskets
27 rifles
7 cavs
8 inf
1 art
22 hops
1 guerilla
3 caravels
6 galleon
9 ironclads
Basically you have no offensive. 1 bombardment units is crazy. Rails, plus artie means no invasion can work. I would want 4-6 on each landmass that does not keave. That is enough to ping ships and any normal landing party.
Cavs should have been your backbone for defense and offense. Now they have infantry, so even redlined infantry can be hard to kill for cavs.
No army, yes I know leaders can make wonders in vanilla and armies are not as good as in C3C. Still an army can cover a stack like nothing else. The ai will not attack a healthy army. An army is needed to be able to build some structures that will help with war.
No real need for 9 transports up till now as you do not have enough troops to fill them anyway. Ironclads or frigates or any offensive boats do not figure prominently in my game. Reason is that you cannot have enough to cover all the point and only a few are needed to support an invasion.
Your military serves two functions in a Republic. 1) deter aggression 2) capture towns. Normally defenders do neither. Now Hoplites are different as they will deter attacks on towns in the early game.
Vanilla is different in terms of early troops. Horses are often chosen over swords as swords do not upgrade for a long time. In C3C they upgrade to MDI, so they are much better choice.
At Regent you should not be concerned so much about attacks and the AI is very weak. I usually will not build any spears below Emperor. Note that after the first few warriors, no troops should be build outside of a barracks, unless it is really needed.
I see you have Communism and Nationalism and Sanitation. These are all optional techs and I normally would not research them. Better to get to Steam first and then RP. You do not need metros, unless you are going for Space or score. I would not trade for them, unless I got them pretty much for free. I would surely not want to give anyone a required tech, unless they paid dearly.
Current builds in queue: (note this count is not totally accurate, but close enough)
coal plant
inf 9
fact 2
barracks
wealth 9
harbor
aqua
temple 3
wall 3
arty
worker 3
rifle
cav
Looking at the towns:
Athens: this town is size 14 and still does not have a market. This is a huge mistake. You probably could put all those clowns back to work had you built one. I did put one joker on the mine and now the plant will finish next turn.
Shield jumped 5, gold up 3, beakers up 3. You have cost yourself a lot of production and research. A market must be the next build.
Rome:
Sell the wall, a city cannot use one as it gets the same bonus on defense for its size.
Move the citizen from the hill mine to the ivory to gain 1gpt.
Change one joker to either a tax or a scientist.
Here is where lack of workers is hurting your empire. You should get the ivory irrigated and all the grass tiles.
May as well get to size 12 asap and make as many specialist as you can here. You may then be able to sell the temple.
Sparta:
I would switch infantry to arty as you only had 1 and it was a 17 turns to go.
Needs the mine railed. Put 2 jokers on sea duty to gain 4 food, 11 commerce. The commerce breaks down to 9 more gold and 2 beakers. I switch the last joker to tax.
Veii:
Here I see a Chinese clad that could have been pinged, had you a couple of arties. I see right off some workers doing things I do not like. 1 is planting trees near Pisae. That town is not making anything and is corrupt. Why plant trees?
Another tile at Pisae they are cutting trees? What will happen to the shields? It looks like they will go up in smoke as will that stack of workers effort. I take the lone worker and have him finish the chop. Take that bunch and have them finish the rail and irrigate here in Veii.
I take that tile away form Ravenna as it does not need the food. Start irrigation on the wheat. Shuffle pop here to get more specialist, rather than jokers.
Sell wall. Next turn should be able to sell temple. We net 5 gold now here.
We need a rax, so switch to that here.
Move the arty next to capitol so it can be found, when needed.
Rhodes:
Stop build of 87 turn inf and switch to wealth. Turn lone pop to taxman. Note taxmen may need to switch to science, will have to see.
We now will not grow here as they is no reason to anyway. Nothing will be gained here except workers or settlers and we can get settlers elsewhere.
Thermopylae:
Well this place needs to be size 12 right now. I move a pop from the mined plains to the mined hill to gain a shield. I take the irrigated grass from Halicarnassus. Switching the infantry there to a worker.
Going to want to get workers out from someplace to do some tile work and clear pollution, but also to add to Therm.
Add three workers and switch to market.
Camulodunum:
Scrap 2 caravels in Camulodunum. A worker pops up assignment and I see a worker busy nearby. You are at war with Brennus, so that seems risky. No cover either? Workers chop both trees and rail the one tile. Chop another tile next to August...
Set lone pop to tax, no need to grow here.
Shantung:
Switch to wall and joker to tax. May abandon or gift, if it comes under attack.
Augustodurum:
Make two taxmen, while the aqua is built.
Lugdunum:
Sure miss CE's, could speed the rax. Put 1 pop back to work so we can grow.
Verulamium:
Switch to arty.
Megara:
Switch to wealth. Sell wall.
Miletos:
Sell lib as we make zero beakers here and no sense paying maint. Switch wall to wealth.
Sell temple. Make a taxman.
Artemisium:
Switch worker to wealth. We do not really gain a lot from getting tiles improved here, so no reason to pay support for more workers here.
Eretria:
Switch wall to wealth. We have no other civs on the island, so no need for walls. We should have been in a position to deal with any landings and soon will be.
Marathon:
switch temple to arty. Mkae a taxman.
Brundisium:
Put both pop to tax and will let starve down. Sell temple.
Lutetia:
Sell wall.
Sell temple.
Put all to tax.
Pisae:
Sell temple and put all to tax.
Viroconium:
Sell all and put all to tax.
Hispalis:
same
Cumae:
same
Pompeii:
Stop worker and go to wealth. It was waiting to grow as it had enough shields.
Sell wall, lib and temple.
Ravenna:
Sell temple. Need to keep harbor. Make 2 taxmen and once we irrigate wheat and rail we can get another pair.
Syracuse:
sell wall and pop to tax.
Palmyra:
Sell temple and lib. Note no beakers here. Pop to tax and let starve to size 1.
Herakleia"
Switch inf to market. We need some workers here.
Thessalonia:
Here I run into a a problem in that I have no idea how long you have been at war and who started them. The concern is war weariness. This town has a lib, but nets only 3 beakers. That makes it a waste of shields and maint. It could maybe use a market and then it cold sell the temple. Start a market.
Ephesus:
About the same and start a market.
The mainland:
not looked at as you would need to determine the plan ahead. Going to stay at war, just get the continent you are invading now? If war never ending is in the cards, then may want to revolt soon.
Right now the changes get you to 115 gold on hand.+70gpt.
tR1cKy
taking over the world
It's PTW not vanilla, swords do upgrade as well.
Besides that, i basically agree with your analysis. The empire management is so wrong, and the military... oh my.
I would add a few things:
- 22 hoplites? for godsake, scrap them! what are they for, apart from sapping money?
- you can get wines from Mongolia and spices from Korea. You have luxuries to pay them back and you can obtain some gpt as part of the deal. What are you waiting for? Trade.
- make peace with China and finish off the Celts ASAP.
- PTW benefits from ring city placement, and the Forbidden Palace city act as the center of a 2nd core. In this regard, the placement of the Capital and the FP city just makes no sense. Try to get a leader and jump the capital in Entremont, you will get a nice rise in production.
Been so long I forgot that PTW introduced MDI. No matter as he has zero swords and had no money for upgrades. I just looked at the 1 gold, 1 beaker for specialist and took it as vanilla. Very little difference from C3 to PTW iirc.
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