Why Ice mana?

First off: It isn't MY chart, I just linked it in my Signature so that more people would see it :) I am not entirely sure where Kael first found it, but it was posted for people to view way back before Fire I think, and mostly forgotten. I was lucky enough to catch a thread where an old-timer was looking for it :)


You aren't looking at Entropy, Ice, Creation & that branch quite right I fear. I had been just doing a quick/short blurb when I posted earlier so may have been partially responsible for misleading you.

Sun & Fire vs Shadow & Water: There is also the element of Energy to these ones. The Sun & Fire give energy, while the Shadow & Water take it.

Life, Nature & Creation vs Death, Ice & Entropy: The driving elements here are most likely generation opposed to stagnation. Something using the energy which it has vs something losing that energy.

Body & Earth vs Spirit & Air: The Body & Earth are both the Solid, the Physical. Raw embodiment & concentration of Energy & Power. Spirit & Air are ephemereal and vague, a loose connection to Energies and powers beyond a single entity.

Chaos, Enchantment & Dimensional vs Law, Mind & Force: For the Chaos branch you are using any energy randomly and spuriously, just grabbing randomly, then enticing it from other sources, and finally looking beyond what others can percieve. While for the Law branch you are ordering things and approaching in a rational manner, first by allowing others to order themselves, then by striving to make order form naturally in spite of others, and finally by being personally in control of the order.


Thus the cycle is largely about Energy and how it is controlled/used, which would naturally be of great interest to people who must bend the mystical energies to their will on a daily basis. How you approach this is just as important as why.

We start at the top & Move clockwise it results in:
Generation
Storage
Acquisition
Retention
Loss
Dispersion
Regulation
Sharing


And of course as I am not the one directly responsible for creating the chart, this is just my take on it. But I feel it is quite reasonably close to the original intent.
 
I made that chart for my D&D game years and years ago. It went through a few different forms and it was never quite perfect. There are a lot of themes represented in it, and smetimes changes would strengthen one theme by reducing another. Im pretty happy with it even if I still have quibbles about certain parts.

More importantly it was where I started the design for FfH. It gave me boundries, themes and design spaces to work with. Mapping civilizations to the spheres didnt exist in the D&D games (though the gods did) so it became a template for them as well.

But thats all it is, a design template, a place to start.
 
So will every sphere eventually be implemented into the game as usable mana and spells, or is that yet to be decided/revealed?
 
So will every sphere eventually be implemented into the game as usable mana and spells, or is that yet to be decided/revealed?

I hope to have all 21 in. But only if the spells for each are worthwile.
 
With only two spells per sphere, that task will be somewhat easier.

By the way, could you remind me which civ maps to each sphere? I'm currently guessing:

Creation - (?)
Nature - Ljoslafar
Life - Elohim
Fire - Clan of Embers
Sun - Malakim
Earth - Khazad
Body - Calabim
Force - Grigori
Mind - Balseraphs
Law - Bannor
Dimensional - Sheaim
Enchantment - Luchiurp
Chaos - Doviello
Metamagic - Amurites
Air - (?)
Spirit - (?)
Water - Lanun
Shadow - Svartlafar
Entropy - Infernals
Ice - Illians
Death - Sidar
 
Ah, yes. I really should've gotten the Mercurians and Elohim, now that I think about it.

What's the connection that the Kuriotates and Hippus have with their spheres? The only thing I can think of for the Hippus would be the idiom "ride like the wind," and that's shaky at best. I can't think of anything for the Kuriotates at all. If the Sheaim had been Entropy (instead of Dimensional), then it would've at least been another mark on their "Evil Opposites" theme, but I can't figure it out right now. Is it something to do with Eurabatres?
 
Well, as far as I can tell, it's more like he's bonded with Cardith Lorda on a spiritual level in a sort of symbiotic relationship, but that aside, your explanation looks right. Who created Abashi, then? Was it Ceridwen or Agares?

...On second thought, I'm getting dangerously close to derailing the thread. I'll bring this up in the Lore forum once I'm back from class.
 
It is Ceridwen, but I'm not sure about the connection the Dragon has to the Sheaim apart from her creator being their patron angel. I did hear from someone (not a team member or someone I consider to have any real authority in the matter) that Tebryn is a Lich whose phylactery is located in Abashi's forehead, or something like that.
 
Ah, yes. I really should've gotten the Mercurians and Elohim, now that I think about it.

What's the connection that the Kuriotates and Hippus have with their spheres? The only thing I can think of for the Hippus would be the idiom "ride like the wind," and that's shaky at best. I can't think of anything for the Kuriotates at all. If the Sheaim had been Entropy (instead of Dimensional), then it would've at least been another mark on their "Evil Opposites" theme, but I can't figure it out right now. Is it something to do with Eurabatres?

All good questions. I can say that we rejected tons of ideas for the Kuriotates and scratched our head for quite a while trying to think of what a "creation" civilization was. Creation was the process of bringing something out of nothing, originality and birth. We eventually decided to give them super cities to represent their aspect and a more diverse racial structure than other civs to represent this new form. The fact that they are lead by a boy is also a tip to their creation aspect. Its all pretty abstract, but I like their design even if it isnt that directly correlated with their aspect.

The Sheaim could definitly represent entropy, but not as well as the Infernals. We tried to use the planar gate mechanic as the tie to their sphere aspect. Ceridwen is intimitly involved in both of the leaders histories, in creatign the Bair of Lacuna for Os-Gabella and in negotiating for the soul of Tebryn from hell and re-releasing it in creation.

@MC- Tebryn isnt technically a lich, hes a very powerful runecaster (all his magic works through the inscription of runes) and one of his most powerful was a persistent rebirth rune that makes him essentially immortal. That rune is inscribed in Abashi's forehead. Meaning to kill Tebryn you first have to kill Abashi.
 
For the Hippus I would say that it is more the "Freedom" of Air than anything else which ties them in. The air will go anywhere, do anything, and is fairly capricious in nature. That fits the Mercenary/plains wandering tribe fairly well.
 
That design actually went from the sphere to the civ. The air aspect suggested high mobile units, seemed perfect for a civ that focused on their mounted units.
 
The nicest classification of magic spheres I have ever seen was in Heroes of M&M IV. Enough small though - 5 spheres. There was a circle with two friendly(neighbours) and two enemy(opposite) spheres for each. Life-Nature-Chaos-Death-Order. Five branches BTW means penthagram i.e. stability and perfection of Universe.

Concerning Water-Ice. If we go into deep physics of elements we should remeber that Fire (flame) is basically an ionized Air. :D Traditional elemental magic division refer to the state of matter rather then atomic consist so Ice is an equivalent of Earth.

If we go from low energy to high energy we have:
Earth-Water-Air-Fire
Death-Life
Shadow-Sun
Law-Chaos

And finally Creation is a way from low energy to high and Entropy is a way back.
 
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