Why is Firaxis so silent?

[Falk]

Pre-launch Firaxis put a lot of effort into communicating with us fans, including us hardcore fans. They had some streams where they showed off the new mechanics and even the AI in a battle royal stream.

But then they released the game and quickly it became apparent that the game has some massive issues, especially in the AI department. And they are largely silent about this. Ed Beach seems to have vanished.

I understand that their lack of communication doesn't mean they aren't working on the issues. We had two patches that addressed some things and they are surely working hard to improve the game even more. But they don't talk about it.

Am I the only one who is rather annoyed by that? I'm currently in the beta for Endless Space 2 and the developers of that game are very open about what they are doing, they have a public road map, and they actually talk to people. I also enjoy Battleborn which had massive issues too, and again, the developers there were and are quite open about these issues and their plans to address them.

I'd like to see Firaxis do that, too. I'd like them to tell us something like "We understand many of the AI issues now and think we can fix most of them in a major patch soonish" or "Tackling the AI issues proves difficult, so don't hold your breath. Might take half a year and an expansion".

At least I would then know what's going on.

 

[Luckystrike77]

The calm before the Tempest!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

2K manages all publicity and marketing, and they are very tight-lipped. Firaxis can't say anything if 2K doesn't let them.

You aren't going to hear from the lead devs now because they have moved on to other projects like DLC and expansions, which they can't talk about; see above.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The reason they are silent.

If they say something (patch in X days/ we are working to improve Y/ etc.)
-people will complain (why isn't patch out sooner/why are they rushing the patch/why are they focusing on Y and not the real problem Z)
AND if any of their statements are off
(the patch is delayed, Y is not really improved that much...or not in this patch)
then there is more complaining

On the other hand if they stay silent
.... they can still read the forums to see what people like/don't like/balance/bugs/exploits, etc.
-people will complain for all sorts of reasons
-some people will be happy when they put out something

(also the lead devs might still be involved in balancing issues)

 

[Stringer1313]

I don't blame them. No matter what they say, people will complain, or be let down and then complain. Don't get me wrong, I think Civ VI needs some serious changes. But they have no incentive to talk right now.

 

[Leyrann]

Have to agree. From what I read on the forums, 2K is really bad in this regard (which imo means someone should get them off their lazy donkeys), but just compare it to, for example, Riot games, the developer of League of Legends. Community news sities daily have a lengthy post which is a compilation of the most important stuff developers have said, and whenever the game is patched, every single patch note has an explanation why they're doing it and what they want to achieve (except minor bug fixes). Oh, yeah, and they patch every 2-3 weeks, but I can understand that different games require different patching speeds.

 

[Stringer1313]

Have to agree. From what I read on the forums, 2K is really bad in this regard (which imo means someone should get them off their lazy donkeys), but just compare it to, for example, Riot games, the developer of League of Legends. Community news sities daily have a lengthy post which is a compilation of the most important stuff developers have said, and whenever the game is patched, every single patch note has an explanation why they're doing it and what they want to achieve (except minor bug fixes). Oh, yeah, and they patch every 2-3 weeks, but I can understand that different games require different patching speeds.

Agreed Riot is incredible in this regard. Just speculating but I think not only is LOL a different beast, b/c Riot was built from the ground up / organically they don't have to cut through a ton of publisher/marketing/investors red tape when they want to communicate with the fan base. Everything Firaxis says publicly has to be carefully vetted, I suspect, by layers of lawyers, publishers, etc etc etc.

 

[PendragonWRB]

The developers where probably directed to produce all of those 'marketing' live streams to boost sales and also probably directed to not interact directly with their fans. The amount of time/work it would take could easily be a full time job, not to mention opening a can of worms.

That being said what still concerns me is an off hand remark Ed made during one of the later live streams where he clearly indicated he didn't think the AI needed any work or advantages (don't remember his exact words), like it was quite capable already. Unfortunately, most of us on these forums are in the minority ability wise compared to the masses playing this game much more casually so they have little incentive to put significant resources into beefing up the AI. I really hope they prove me wrong, but I am afraid the AI will merely provide nothing more than a moving target to shoot at for quite some time.

 

[V. Soma]

As for the AI: just give modders the tools to fix it... real tools and means...

 

[Kwami]

The developers where probably directed to produce all of those 'marketing' live streams to boost sales and also probably directed to not interact directly with their fans. The amount of time/work it would take could easily be a full time job, not to mention opening a can of worms.

I really, very seriously doubt that the game developers are working on promotional videos. There's a marketing and sales team for that.

 

[Falk]

Riot is a good example but there are a lot more. Even Blizzard is way better at communicating with its fans, not only about patches and design decisions, but also about major issues that sometimes come up in some of their games.

And I mentioned Gearbox' Battleborn as an example for a good communication philosophy for a game that had major issues - and Battleborn is a 2k Games title! So I'm not sure whom to blame here.

That being said what still concerns me is an off hand remark Ed made during one of the later live streams where he clearly indicated he didn't think the AI needed any work or advantages (don't remember his exact words), like it was quite capable already..

This is also what concerns me. I'd like to know what Ed as lead developer thinks about this. Does he consider the AI to be decent and merely in need of some small fixes? Or does he see major problems and wants to do a complete overhaul? Or something in between? I'd really like to know that.
Would I complain if the devs told us they thought the AI was fine? Yeah, I might vent a little in some rant thread, but then it will be ok. Hell, if I knew no AI overhaul is incoming I might even come to terms with its current state and just try to have some fun with what we have. Some might call that irrational, but I can't help it - right now the game is on hold for me because I want to wait for significant AI improvements. Am I waiting in vain? I want to know that. It would help me! I'm a civ-addict after all, this is important to me!

 

[PendragonWRB]

I really, very seriously doubt that the game developers are working on promotional videos. There's a marketing and sales team for that.

Marketing and Sales teams cost money, they already have a 'captive' group of developers, and getting them to demo their new product was exactly 'marketing' type material. Note how silent they are now that the product is out and the money is in the bank.

 

[callan]

That being said what still concerns me is an off hand remark Ed made during one of the later live streams where he clearly indicated he didn't think the AI needed any work or advantages (don't remember his exact words), like it was quite capable already. Unfortunately, most of us on these forums are in the minority ability wise compared to the masses playing this game much more casually so they have little incentive to put significant resources into beefing up the AI. I really hope they prove me wrong, but I am afraid the AI will merely provide nothing more than a moving target to shoot at for quite some time.

*If* he said that then it was a deliberate lie. No-one of Mr. Beach's competence would have been so uninformed as to the reality.

 

[Kwami]

Marketing and Sales teams cost money, they already have a 'captive' group of developers, and getting them to demo their new product was exactly 'marketing' type material. Note how silent they are now that the product is out and the money is in the bank.

That's really just not how things work. Developers and marketing people have very different skill sets. I've never heard of developers being forced into marketing. Demos, sure. But those promotional videos and stuff? Not so much.

 

[callan]

Marketing and Sales teams cost money, they already have a 'captive' group of developers, and getting them to demo their new product was exactly 'marketing' type material. Note how silent they are now that the product is out and the money is in the bank.

It's been said above but Firaxis is a wholly owned subsidiary of 2k Games. 2k Games is a wholly owned subsidiary of TakeTwo Interactive.

In other words, the publishing company, that owns the publishing company, that owns Firaxis sets the tone. *All* of their child-companies are terrible at customer interaction because of the inherent flaws in this ownership structure, which is actually primarily focused on the delivery of console titles, a completely different demo. In any case, Firaxis does not have a "client interaction" budget. In this sort of ownership structure that means that you can't assign any of your time to that cost-base. Meaning you can't do any work in that area because you can't account for that time. You might think such a structure is old-fashioned and much too rigid to enjoy ongoing success and you are probably right. No doubt an awful lot of the people working within it would agree with you. However, short of a buyout and restructuring of some sort nothing is going to change.

 

[PendragonWRB]

*If* he said that then it was a deliberate lie. No-one of Mr. Beach's competence would have been so uninformed as to the reality.

He definitely made a comment responding to some question about boosting the AI. The live streams don't appear to be available so I cannot reference it, but surely I am not the only one who heard those comments. I was almost shocked the instant he said it because the pre-release reviews had already commented on how poor the AI was. I think it was the stream where he got trounced taking Roman legions against AI warriors. His attack was poorly planned and the AI still had it's early spawn of units. None of the early live streams or reviews went past 50 turns or so, so the glaring inadequacy of the AI was not exposed.

That's really just not how things work. Developers and marketing people have very different skill sets. I've never heard of developers being forced into marketing. Demos, sure. But those promotional videos and stuff? Not so much.

I am not saying developers are marketers, but how much 'content' about Civ VI was available before it released? The lions share was the live streams, and to me, they where almost the entirety of the promotional material available.

Has there been a single live stream since release talking about the state of the game and it's direction? Notta.

 

[Kwami]

Has there been a single live stream since release talking about the state of the game and it's direction? Notta.

Maybe they're all busy developing.

 

[Gedemon]

That's really just not how things work. Developers and marketing people have very different skill sets. I've never heard of developers being forced into marketing. Demos, sure. But those promotional videos and stuff? Not so much.

Back to OP question then: Why is Firaxis so silent now?

Maybe they're all busy developing.

Then how/why did they made those videos unless forced to do so for marketing purpose ?

I mean they surely knew at the time that they were already 2 or 3 months late in their planning for civ6 and they all should have been very busy developing then.

The modding tools for civ5 were out 10 days after its release, they're still not ready 3 months after for civ6, while they were marketed for "soon after release".

 

[Ferocitus]

Back to OP question then: Why is Firaxis so silent now?

Then how/why did they made those videos unless forced to do so for marketing purpose ?

I mean they surely knew at the time that they were already 2 or 3 months late in their planning for civ6 and they all should have been very busy developing then.

The modding tools for civ5 were out 10 days after its release, they're still not ready 3 months after for civ6, while they were marketed for "soon after release".

Classic puffery, just like "60 Minute Dry Cleaners" doesn't mean that you get your clothes back after one hour.

 

[Gedemon]

Classic puffery, just like "60 Minute Dry Cleaners" doesn't mean that you get your clothes back after one hour.

That's not the point, "they are busy developing now" doesn't looks like a valid argument as they surely were busy developing then when they knew they were late.