Ferocitus
Deity
I'm not saying that it's a valid argument. It's just another lame excuse that businesses use to spin their way out of trouble.
Why is Firaxis so silent?
- Thread starter Falk
- Start date
I'm not saying that it's a valid argument. It's just another lame excuse that businesses use to spin their way out of trouble.
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- 16,938
2K knows that certain devs like Sid and Ed have truck with the fan base. Perhaps, part of their job is to go out and say nice things and not say bad things in front of the customers, then disappear as needed.
They work on things long before they are announced to the public. Obviously, once the game is announced, the majority of the design side of the development is behind them and the coders and artists are the busy ones making it a reality. The producers and designers have more time to dedicate to public appearances at that point, while still making management decisions about things that crop up. Dennis Shirk and Ed Beach aren't the ones writing and compiling code or making 3D models. They are the bosses of the people who do that.
Right now, I'd guess that Dennis Shirk is laying out overall plans for the next few years of DLC and Expansions getting things OK'd by Sid and 2K, while Ed is hacking out more specific details on the whatever is coming in the next few months, and a guy we never even heard of is really busy leading the coders to prepare the next patch before it is sent to their QA people. The QA people seem to be busy testing the Linux version of the game at this time. Probably, a lot of human resources were shifted over to work on the recently announced XCOM2LW2.
They work on things long before they are announced to the public. Obviously, once the game is announced, the majority of the design side of the development is behind them and the coders and artists are the busy ones making it a reality. The producers and designers have more time to dedicate to public appearances at that point, while still making management decisions about things that crop up. Dennis Shirk and Ed Beach aren't the ones writing and compiling code or making 3D models. They are the bosses of the people who do that.
Right now, I'd guess that Dennis Shirk is laying out overall plans for the next few years of DLC and Expansions getting things OK'd by Sid and 2K, while Ed is hacking out more specific details on the whatever is coming in the next few months, and a guy we never even heard of is really busy leading the coders to prepare the next patch before it is sent to their QA people. The QA people seem to be busy testing the Linux version of the game at this time. Probably, a lot of human resources were shifted over to work on the recently announced XCOM2LW2.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
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- 12,418
The reason they actually talked to the fans before the game was released is because that was marketing.
After people actually bought the game, there is no marketing reason to talk to the fans.
So we'll hear from them again when the first expansion starts being prepared for release.
After people actually bought the game, there is no marketing reason to talk to the fans.
So we'll hear from them again when the first expansion starts being prepared for release.
I also think it wouldnt hurt to improve theit customer relations.
I think their work is quite good (I dont expect the AI to became perfect - for my level it would be enough if it improved just a bit beyond its current state), but it would never the less be interesting how future plans and steps are like.
Other companies do this in a better way.
I think their work is quite good (I dont expect the AI to became perfect - for my level it would be enough if it improved just a bit beyond its current state), but it would never the less be interesting how future plans and steps are like.
Other companies do this in a better way.
EricTheGreat12
King
Anyone ever heard of the game called the Long Dark ?
I won't go into what the game actually is, but the point is that even though the game has been in Alpha stage for a couple of years now, the development team is with their fans every step of the way. Every UI improvement and additional feature is brought from the community, and they are implemented into the game once the game releases its monthly upgrade. Even the littlest of issues are addressed, and they make sure to continuously be in touch with their gaming community.
Now if Firaxis took that approach, that would be just great....
I won't go into what the game actually is, but the point is that even though the game has been in Alpha stage for a couple of years now, the development team is with their fans every step of the way. Every UI improvement and additional feature is brought from the community, and they are implemented into the game once the game releases its monthly upgrade. Even the littlest of issues are addressed, and they make sure to continuously be in touch with their gaming community.
Now if Firaxis took that approach, that would be just great....
No, thanks. I'd prefer games that get out of public alpha before two years have passed. Also, design by committee is far from ideal. It sounds to me like whoever makes Long Dark is just getting the community to develop their game for them, and to pay for the privilege of doing so.
EricTheGreat12
King
I don't expect Firaxis to take that approach to the letter; it's tough considering how big their community is compared to the studio that created the LD (Hinterland Studios). But being in touch with your community, as well as releasing monthly updates, is a good step forward, with the exception of there being too many updates => therefore a 2 year alpha process.
They're not making the game; taking feedback from the gaming community is an initiative that all gaming companies do, and Hinterland Studios does it tremendously better than Firaxis is doing now.
Abraxis
☮
Given that even I can see how shallow 90% of the complaints are with my low to moderate experience with the title, and how compromising the proposed solutions often are to married systems, I can only imagine their faces are purple from all the palming if they actually tried to not only read all the feedback, but respond to it in any capacity worthy of their positions.
Short answer, very few deserve a response, unless putting even a fraction of the effort into their feedback as the devs put into the game. Those few probably would. Just pointing it out here like this really doesn't.
Also devs in general tend to avoid trying to steer the perception of their product, it generally always backfires.
Finally, this is their job. Would you want to come home everyday and read a bunch of thoughtless criticism of your work from over-entitled brats on the internet or do something to you know... relax.
Short answer, very few deserve a response, unless putting even a fraction of the effort into their feedback as the devs put into the game. Those few probably would. Just pointing it out here like this really doesn't.
Also devs in general tend to avoid trying to steer the perception of their product, it generally always backfires.
Finally, this is their job. Would you want to come home everyday and read a bunch of thoughtless criticism of your work from over-entitled brats on the internet or do something to you know... relax.
Leyrann
Deity
Then at least they should reply to those people who put substantial effort in their feedback. But tell me, does Firaxis even have an official forum? Because if so, I've never heard of it and someone should probably go there to tell them that 99% of the people who want to voice their thoughts on their game are over here.
I mean, I'm fine spending an hour to explain in detail what problems I have with a game and what I hope the developer can do, as well as giving thought out replies to what they say about what they can or can't do and why. I've done so before.
I mean, I'm fine spending an hour to explain in detail what problems I have with a game and what I hope the developer can do, as well as giving thought out replies to what they say about what they can or can't do and why. I've done so before.
Acken
Deity
My main issue is the lack of modding tools. Definitely is a sign the game was released too early.
Yes, there is an official forum here: https://forums.2k.com/forumdisplay.php?794-Civilization-VI-General-Discussion
Abraxis
☮
If this was sarcasm, I apologize for taking it at face value, but this is exactly my point. You actually believe, in an hour, you -just some joe on the internet- have the solutions to the challenges faced by this highly experienced and proven team of professionals, who have dedicated years of overtime collaborating, and deliberately obsessing over every detail on this project. I mean I am arrogant as all heck, but at least I know it.
Things just aren't as simple as they can seem after even a whole hour of consideration, believe it or not.
I get the impression you believe problems exist because no one sees them, and not because, you know, reality.
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Keep in mind that is a 2K forum, not a Firaxis forum. The developer (Firaxis) does not maintain a public discussion forum, but the publisher (2K, which also owns Firaxis) maintains that forum. Note also that the 2K forums are moderated by people who are not 2K employees and (near as I can tell) the only 2K employees who post from time to time are marketing/community support folks, not Firaxis development types.
ThERat
Deity
I can see where Firaxis is coming from. They released the game and made their moolah and that is all there is. Why bother to communicate until they need to start the hype for the next expansion. It has worked so well in the past, why would they change it? The customer base seems perfectly happy with this sort of treatment they get. Even DLCs were snapped up even though the base game has a lot of issues.
The difference to games that rely on constant online buys is very clear. There, constant updates by the developers are an important part of marketing.
I, for one, have had enough of Firaxis' customer care and will no longer buy in any nonsense (I had not bought any expansion for Civ 5 too as I hated the base game). Luckily for me, C3C base game with multiple MODs is great enough to satisfy my civilization hunger.
The difference to games that rely on constant online buys is very clear. There, constant updates by the developers are an important part of marketing.
I, for one, have had enough of Firaxis' customer care and will no longer buy in any nonsense (I had not bought any expansion for Civ 5 too as I hated the base game). Luckily for me, C3C base game with multiple MODs is great enough to satisfy my civilization hunger.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
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And if you think negative opinions are trounced on here, wait till you go over there with their legions of "yes" minions!
They prove why the series will not be saved.
Falk
Prince
That's a bunch of really bad arguments.
1. 90% of complaints may be shallow, but it's rather obvious that there are some major issues with the game (AI, unfinished UI, unfinished Civilopedia). No one wants them to address ALL complaints.
2. It is not true that devs generally "avoid trying to steer the perception of their product". Maybe it's true for games that you play, but it is not true "in general". It is indeed quite common for devs to do that. Many examples have been given in this thread, I mentioned Battleborn and the Endless games for instance.
3. No one wants them to "come home everyday and read a bunch of thoughtless criticism". I don't understand where you get that from. I'm asking them to give us some feedback. I even said that I'd be ok with them telling us that they don't agree with my game-has-major-issues assessment.
You're almost completely missing the point of this thread and of what people have posted here. You're wildly exaggerating what has been said in order to then make fun of it. It's classic strawmen burning.
Saying "these are a bunch of really bad arguments" and then making a statement that speaks for everybody on the forums is kinda self-defeating.
There are people who will complain nomatter what, they do exist, and they do post.
If it's so obvious that there are all these issues with the game, at what point do you think the developers became aware of these issues? Do you think they actually don't know? Is this a problem with the developers, the attitude of the community, the management of the developer team (by not affording them the time to comb through forums like these during work hours), or a combination of all three?
What are the reasonable arguments here. I see a lot of railing against the "strawman" arguments that take blame from the developers. I see very little effort from the same people against similar, but opposite, arguments made by detractors.
There are people who will complain nomatter what, they do exist, and they do post.
If it's so obvious that there are all these issues with the game, at what point do you think the developers became aware of these issues? Do you think they actually don't know? Is this a problem with the developers, the attitude of the community, the management of the developer team (by not affording them the time to comb through forums like these during work hours), or a combination of all three?
What are the reasonable arguments here. I see a lot of railing against the "strawman" arguments that take blame from the developers. I see very little effort from the same people against similar, but opposite, arguments made by detractors.
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