Why is the AI always so strong with Suryavarman???

[nbcman]

After playing a game as the Khmer, I appreciate his UU more. I was being attacked by Isabella and Catherine simultaneously but they threw their primarily mounted SODs at me. I made short work of them with only a few Ballista Elephants. Thank heavens for AIs not changing their builds appropriately when being opposed by the Khmer. So if Sury can get his ballista elephants online they can hold their own quite well.

 

[nbcman]

Deleted - Doublepost.

 

[azzaman333]

That's why Creative is the best AI trait. I made a thread about this and posted some sample games but it seems to have died out.

That thread also pointed out that Wang Kon is a terrible AI....

I must've missed that thread, but why is Wang so bad as an AI?

 

[Fei Kelei]

I must've missed that thread, but why is Wang so bad as an AI?

I don't know if these are DMOC's reasons, but in my experience he always ends up as one of the smallest empires because he doesn't expand enough, and he's a very fast techer but he neglects his military, so he'll usually get picked on by the aggressive AIs. He's definitely a contender for the 'Most Likely to be Vassalized' Award.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

He's definitely a contender for the 'Most Likely to be Vassalized' Award.

He almost always gets Vassalized in my games. If not, he's usually eliminated by the mid game by me. Fei Kelei is right. He doesn't build enough troops.

 

[DMOC]

In the 10-20 games I've had Wang, he is ALWAYS terrible. Just terrible.

I remember once where he had a nice floodplains start plus plenty of room to expand. And you know what hapened? Kublai Khan declared war on him and wiped him out!!!

(Oh, and Kublai is Creative... )

EDIT: Oh, I remember that game now. The funny thing was...Gandhi was on that continent as well, and he didn't get wiped out!

And do I even need to mention that of the 2 games I am currently playing, (1 of which is my deity game here -- need to finish that up), 1 is me as Huayna on a Big and Small map. Wang is my closest neighbor. It's about 500 BC and he has...TWO cities. TWO. On immortal difficulty. In that game game, Zara Yaqob and Charlemagne both have 9. I should get some screenshots of this to prove it.

I forgot...WK is in the deity game I'm playing. He's not doing so bad himself (9 cities), but he's the least advanced of the 4 on the continent (including me!!).

Now I know that it might be due to a variety of factors...but it's just that he never does well. I mean, other AI's aren't this bad. I was playing the Saladin Immortal Cookbook and I was doing well on my continent. Unfortunately, Tokugawa decided to vassalize everyone on the other continent, so it looked like I'd have a long drawn-out war...

 

[azzaman333]

Yeah, I've noticed he pretty much always is terrible too, I was just wondering if there was some sort of code reason or something.

 

[DMOC]

It's probably this:

1. Lack of expansion!
2. Lack of military!
3. A base peaceweight of 9 (so the aggressive AI's except Hammurabi are all upset with him from the start).

 

[azzaman333]

I have noticed Lincoln to be the Worst AI of the lot.

 

[DMOC]

Yeah, that Lincoln AI.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Now I know that it might be due to a variety of factors...but it's just that he never does well. I mean, other AI's aren't this bad. I was playing the Saladin Immortal Cookbook and I was doing well on my continent. Unfortunately, Tokugawa decided to vassalize everyone on the other continent, so it looked like I'd have a long drawn-out war...

I'm thinking it's about time I play IC III Sal out. It's probably possible to subject toku to the typical diplo abuse and win that way. Of course, I have spoiler info on it, but I'm no deity player either .

 

[Gumbolt]

On my Shaka game Sury got strong. Downside is he stayed at pleased with me nearly all game till I DOW with riflemen. His stack was pretty weak with curs etc and soon died.

Heres a thought. Set up a Emperor game. If possible all the Ai must have the creative trait. Certainly include Willem, Sury, catherine and the mongols. I forget the other nations with creative leaders. Germany maybe too?

Then play out the game. It will compare to that game i saw on here where all the AI were indust. trait on a OCC game. Its in the archives somewhere.

I think that would be a challenge in many ways.

 

[DMOC]

In that game (with creative AI's), maybe there should be some non-creative AI's there, just to see what would happen.

Oh, and dont forget Wang Kon.

 

[azzaman333]

I think it would be interesting to see Cathy, Sury, Gilgamesh, Willem, Kublai, Pericles, Louis, Zara, Joao, Washington and Wang went. (Joao and Washington because they seem to be the 2 best non-creative REXers, and Wang because he's Wang)

 

[DMOC]

I don't know about Washington as a REXer (well, I hardly play against an American leader so please correct me), but I would definitely agree about Joao.

Another good REXer could be Cyrus, if I'm not mistaken. Or maybe I'm confusing him with his vanilla AI?

Oh, don't forget Hatshepsut in the game (she's creative).

 

[Gumbolt]

So perhaps the human player could be creative too? Then again I was thinking Monty or Justin as i have not seen a game with them lately. Random might solve a few arguments.

Problems then become how many leaders. Normally 8 on a large map including human player. Also map type. Pangea would test the Ai against eachother.

This could be a chain of games. One for each set of traits. Exp, cre,phil etc.

It would be an interesting experiment.

If you truly want a non creative leader there i wouldnt object to adding shaka.

 

[azzaman333]

I don't know about Washington as a REXer (well, I hardly play against an American leader so please correct me), but I would definitely agree about Joao.

Another good REXer could be Cyrus, if I'm not mistaken. Or maybe I'm confusing him with his vanilla AI?

Oh, don't forget Hatshepsut in the game (she's creative).

I don't have a lot of games against Washington, but when I have he always seems to expand fast. I haven't seen Cyrus REX much, but I can't remember him being in my games for a long while.

And yes, Hatty, forgot about her.

EDIT: I think I'll try it now. Large, Continents, Monarch, vs Cyrus, Hatty, Shaka, Cathy, Sury, Gilgamesh, Willem, Kublai, Pericles, Louis, Zara, Joao, Washington and Wang.

 

[Gumbolt]

Hmmm not a fan of Hatty. Too easily rolled over.

I think 14 on a single map will over crowd. Then again it will certainly pose a challenge to the player in the middle of it.

 

[azzaman333]

Played through til early ADs. Shaka, Cathy, Sury, Gilgamesh, Kublai, Louis, Zara, Joao and Washington ended up on my (Sulieman) continent, Pericles, Cyrus, Hatty, Wang, Willem on the other. Cathy seemed to expand the fastest til she tanked her economy. Shaka and Kublai both expanded quickly until they got angry and started picking on Washington, who'd also expanded fairly quickly. Gilgamesh and Sury were the only two to expand well, whilst keeping themselves in the top 5 or so for GNP. Louis decided to turtle, Zara expanded relatively slowly but had the best GNP. From the replay, tt appeared that Pericles was expanding rapidly on the other continent, but trashing his economy. Cyrus was a little slow, but he did build the Great Wall, and had the best GNP on that continent. Wang seemed to be in decent shape, about the same as Hatty. Willem had his 3rd city razed by the barbarians, so he was screwed.

 

[Turquoiside]

Adding Shaka distorts the whole game. It would then all matter on who Shaka choose to kill.