Why is the western world declining?

[Arent11]

The cold war was surely the latest spike of "power" of the western world.
Two large power blocs that controlled or influenced vast parts of the world.
However, right now a certain decline is observable.

The "eastern bloc" has broken down and lost a lot of its former power. And
even the "western bloc" shows signs of internal conflicts & demographic
decline. Economic power is slowly shifting to China, and to a lesser extent
also south America is catching up.

So, why do you think that is? Is it the failure of certain ideologies (Eastern
bloc)? Internal conflicts? Or maybe you just think there is a "shift" in power
and not so much a decline?

 

[Crezth]

Why is blue green?

 

[gay_Aleks]

I blame the sudden decrease in white young men in khaki pants.

 

[JohannaK]

The decline of Western Civilization happens because some braindead people think there is some point to decline from.

 

[Cutlass]

Conservatism.

 

[Arent11]

Apparently the mere suggestion of a decline of western civilization
is a serious insult of the feelings of some people

Sorry, but you have to face that the western world is not, anymore,
the sole centre of the universe. You are not the coolest, most
powerful, most fashionable guys in the world anymore. Does that
make you feel antsy?

You can, of course, argue, that the western world is not so much
declining, but other countries are rather catching up. But I haven't
seen this argument so far.

 

[Crezth]

It never was the center of the universe you absolute melt.

 

[JohannaK]

It seems as though some idiots do think it was ever the center of the universe. Pity the fool.

 

[Arent11]

Apparently some people are extremely aggravated
by that topic. Could you maybe explain why it
incites you that much?

 

[Crezth]

I find poorly-formatted questions with false or underdeveloped premises aggravating.

 

[Arent11]

I find poorly-formatted questions with false or underdeveloped premises aggravating.

So, what part of the question is poorly formatted, so I can reformat it?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Declining, in what way?

 

[Arent11]

Declining, in what way?

The European Union lies in shambles, there are obviously inner conflicts in the US. Military power &
political influence is strongly declining, economic power is slowly shifting to other countries.

Right now, I would argue China is stronger than USA. But I accept that other people might
think differently.

The decline of Western Civilization happens because some braindead people think there is some point to decline from.

Of course there is military, economic & political power, which can be roughly measured.
The statement that "there is no point to decline from" is not very clever.

But I accept that maybe my OP was poorly explained. I edited it & hope it is now more clear.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The European Union lies in shambles, there are obviously inner conflicts in the US. Military power &
political influence is strongly declining, economic power is slowly shifting to other countries.

Right now, I would argue, China is stronger than USA. But I accept that other people might
think differently.

So you don't care about stuff such as people pretty much everywhere is better off nowdays than ever before. World is more tolerant today than ever before and pretty much everything is better.

Why care about military or economical power, it is not that stuff that make the world great anyway.

The world is not particular nice under western control anyway, so not something that should be missed.

 

[Arent11]

So you don't care about stuff such as people pretty much everywhere is better off nowdays than ever before. World is more tolerant today than ever before and pretty much everything is better.

Why care about military or economical power, it is not that stuff that make the world great anyway.

That is not the topic of the thread. Of course we can also talk about the general
economic welfare of the world, but maybe in another topic?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

That is not the topic of the threat. Of course we can also talk about the general
economic welfare of the world, but maybe in another topic?

What you call decline and what I call decline are two separate things. You say the western world is declining because its relative power is weaker. I would say decline meaning return back to what western world was a number of decades before.

So why is the western world declining, because it stopped being as oppressive as it was which In my view means progress.

 

[Arent11]

What you call decline and what I call decline are two separate things. You say the western world is declining because its relative power is weaker. I would say decline meaning return back to what western world was a number of decades before.

So why is the western world declining, because it stopped being as oppressive as it was which In my view means progress.

Of course you can argue that other countries rather "catch up" instead of the western world "declining".
You can even choose the answer "Decline? No, I don't think so" in the poll. That's why I added that
choice.

Regarding absolute vs relative decline, I would argue that this only holds if you factor in technological
advancement. Of course, technology today is more advanced than decades ago & you can argue that
therefore, Europe or USA today are "stronger" than decades ago. But if you ignore tech, you would
have an absolute decline in power at least in military & political areas.

I also want to point out that this is not about ethics. According to your view, China would be "backwards",
because it is oppressive.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The conventional military power of western countries have proven to be very effective in modern times. And don't make the assumption that western countries can not mobilize like they could in ww2 because they very well can. Don't make the assumption that western countries have grown military soft as far as I have seen they seem to be capable to destroy their enemies more effectively than they could during ww2.

It is very hard to say if they are relatively weaker military given they seems very capable of beating their enemies then they have to. You have to consider that stuff have changed like nukes which did not exist during the time of for example the British empire.

Stuff was much much cheaper before which is why ww2 militaries could have so large amount of equipments. Like a destroyer today may cost more to build and equip than an Iowa class battleship did (even considering inflation). However you get what you pay for so that is why massive amount of poor equipment is no longer used. I think some of the aircraft projects USA have cost as much if not more than the total amount of aircrafts USA built during ww2.

 

[Arent11]

The conventional military power of western countries have proven to be very effective in modern times. And don't make the assumption that western countries can not mobilize like they could in ww2 because they very well can. Don't make the assumption that western countries have grown military soft as far as I have seen they seem to be capable to destroy their enemies more effectively than they could during ww2.

I would argue they can not because of political & demographic reasons.
If you add modern technology, you are right. But apart from that, Western
countries could, in my humble opinion, not bring the same cohesion &
manpower to the table as some decades ago.

The good thing is that the same is true for other countries. And that is a
good thing for everyone living in the world right now

The same is true for political cohesion. Ukraine was not defended by anyone.
I'm not so sure western countries would stick together, if a real threat would
arise. I rather believe they would try to appease it.

In the case of economic power I think it is only a "relative" shift: Western economic
power is not so much declining, it is rather other countries that are catching up.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The same is true for political cohesion. Ukraine was not defended by anyone. I'm not so sure
western countries would stick together, if a real threat would arise. I rather believe they would
try to appease it.

It took quite alot before they started to stick together during ww2.