Why Is Youth So Left-Wing?

[Pasi Nurminen]

You have a cute story, but it didn't answer or address my question, which is, why is anything that happens to you my responsibility?

See, you say the "government" helps you. That's not the case. Other people helped you. The government is people, and more importantly, people's money, other people's money.

His point is simple: have some compassion for once, Flaming snipped.

In fact, that's the whole point of this thread: people who argue against welfare, or socialist programs designed to help the poor, are just cold hearted vulgarity snipped. If everyone thought like you do, rmsharpe, we would still be searching for the wheel. People need to have some compassion. Reaching out and helping the poor is one of the most compassionate things a human being can do, because I think you'll find that the vast majority of the time, the poor are not poor simply because they are lazy and refuse to work, but because circumstances have truly conspired against them in their lives. Just because you're living comfortably with your middle class income doesn't mean that everyone can. Some people just simply need help.

And you can Vulgarity snipped and whine all you want about the government taking your money, but if you truly believed what you do, then you'd be out there, like I am, putting your ass to work, for free, to help out in the community, to help the underprivileged. I am proud to say that I have, and will continue to, help the people of my community, rich and poor alike. I am a proud Interactor. (www.interact5040.org). I was out there for eight hours today, unpaid, while everyone else was enjoying the Canada Day festivities around me, hauling recyclables around, so that the community centre would have money for childrens programs, and the like. And I wasn't paid! How's that? I guess neocons have no ability to comprehend volunteer work.

So, rmsharpe, just please shut up. You are contradicting yourself thousands of times. If you believe what you claim to, then get out there and do something to help people of your own free will instead of letting the government do it. If you refuse to do that, then stop Vulgarity snipped and whining about it, and take a step back and re evaluate your life right now.

Moderator Action: Flaming. Warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Mapache]

Wasn't Churchill accredited for that saying?

French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau is supposed to have said something like that. I couldn't find a reliable source, though.

Regarding the topic: If socialism means the sharing of wealth then most likely the have-nots will be socialists.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Next one to flame in this thread gets a ban.
@RMSharpe: If you wish to continue posting in this thread, I suggest you do it with some tact, and refrain from making comments about specific posters. The responses to the way you go about expressing your views demonstrate that you have crossed the line.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Evertonian]

You have a cute story, but it didn't answer or address my question, which is, why is anything that happens to you my responsibility?

Well, we live all live in a society, rather than fending for ourselves in the jungle, and in order to be able to survive, even, we all rely on other people to act in a way that is consistent with our well being.

The fact that we live in such a society provides us with a kind of insurance. State help, when people fall on hard times, is to my mind just a natural extension of this principle to the modern world.

In the ancient times, when we were cavemen, when a member of the tribe was one day unfit to go out hunting and gathering, presumably the rest of the tribe didn't send him away and let him die on his own.

The world we live in has changed since those times, so the nature of the assistance that is required has changed, but, to my mind, the principle remains.

 

[Iggy]

They don't have to work for what they have.

On a superficial level I would agree with that, however I would add that it is the core problem of any idealism.
Socialist and many mainstream Religious values at their core are good and look at the wider picture of the betterment of all fellow man. If you stick to these core values in the real world you will be trampled upon by your fellow man and therefore have to adapt your beliefs into the society you enter into.
Ones ideal maybe to make society adapt to you and your "good and decent" ideals, but the world does not work that way. The "have nots" want to have; the "haves" want to have more, there is little room for genuine idealism if you want to prosper and survive well.

 

[fazzoletti]

Just a note I need to make here. i'm right wing (neo-liberal as we call it in Europe), anti-Kyoto, pro-Wolwowitz, anti-Schröder, anti-communist (obviously).
But I do not share the heartless ideas of RM, and I see the benefits of social security (upt to a certain point of course) even it it was only to reduce crime. I also recognize the beneficary externalities of education (we can be productive at work, partly because our collegues are so well educated). Also I believe you just can't let people die, even if it is their own fault. Just to show you that not al us righties have no heart.

 

[Iggy]

Just a note I need to make here. i'm right wing (neo-liberal as we call it in Europe), anti-Kyoto, pro-Wolwowitz, anti-Schröder, anti-communist (obviously).
But I do not share the heartless ideas of RM, and I see the benefits of social security (upt to a certain point of course) even it it was only to reduce crime. I also recognize the beneficary externalities of education (we can be productive at work, partly because our collegues are so well educated). Also I believe you just can't let people die, even if it is their own fault. Just to show you that not al us righties have no heart.

Yes, it goes to show that in real world democracy the reality is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.

 

[col]

Left and right are just words.

People are an asset to be invested in like any other. A society that invests in its own members will ultimately be more productive than one that does not. Sure not all investments pay off but if you hit it big time with a few then it more than compensates for the ones that dont. People's talents are too important to waste because accidents of birth make some better placed than others to take advantage of education and training.

 

[Iggy]

People's talents are too important to waste because accidents of birth make some better placed than others to take advantage of education and training.

In the ideal world everybody should be taught to the maximum of their learning ability. However you can only strive to get as close as you can, as it is unrealistic for society to provide the best for all pupils. The best being one to one classes by a highly capable, motivated and well rewarded teacher.
Sometimes I wonder if some people on the left are more concerned about stopping people having the privallage of a better education (be it indiviual tutorials or fee paying schools) than raising the standards for all pupils.

 

[aaron_burr]

I would rather say you intentionnally pretend you don't understand.

But I'll play along : well, you come, show utter contempt toward the left, considering them unable to understand even basics for life and how the world works, telling they are disordered, and, overall, show ignorance and arrogance at a nearly cosmic level.
And then, the conclusion is that "pride, arrogance and ignorance" are traits that parents no longer discourage. Which is supposed to explain why young people are rather leftists. But this argument only ends up backfiring at the one who used it, as he's one of the first being concerned by it ^^

So, I'm arrogant and proud because I complain about others' arrogance and pride? That is subjectivism at its finest.

Even if you want to consider Leftism a credible, respectable strain of Western thought (which I don't, but shall for the sake of propriety), it can't compare to thought that rests on Artistotle, Ecclesiastes, Christ, Aquinas, Smith, and the like. The Left's pedigree not only lacks the age and experience of these giants' wisdom, it also throws out their brilliance.

And many Leftists' scope of history seems to begin the day they were born. This is also a problem with conservatives in America, who think history began with the American Revolution. In either case, the wisdom of our forebears is stunted, deeply.

To quote Newton, "If I have seen further [than certain other men] it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." I don't claim any special intellect for myself; I am simply humble enough accept the brilliance of those that went before me.

(As a side note, it is frighteningly arrogant to understand that God came to Earth and explained what He wanted of you, then died for you, and reject Him, which most Leftists do. But I suppose that is another thread.)

 

[Mise]

I thought Jesus was more left than right.

 

[aaron_burr]

If you like being a serf maybe....

Funny you say that; you're more of a serf now. You pay much more in taxes now that any Medieval person ever did, and you don't even get good architecture to show for it.

To Mise: If Jesus is more left than right, how come the left disavows Him and breaks His laws? We could also talk of what happened to the Church during the French Revolution, or when the Soviets (that is, Leftists) cut the crosses off Orthodox domes and beat the priests to death with them.

 

[thestonesfan]

Growing up, children have everything they need provided for them, and that's a hard lifestyle to give up. The idea of leaving a life of structure for a life of unknowns is daunting.

 

[Mise]

To Mise: If Jesus is more left than right, how come the left disavows Him and breaks His laws? We could also talk of what happened to the Church during the French Revolution, or when the Soviets (that is, Leftists) cut the crosses off Orthodox domes and beat the priests to death with them.

Does this prove that Jesus is right wing?

 

[thestonesfan]

Last I knew, Jesus isn't making any legislation, so why does it matter what his politics were?

 

[philippe]

its how society works on the minds most here are centrum minded and there isn't really a large major group very right or left

 

[zulu9812]

You have a cute story, but it didn't answer or address my question, which is, why is anything that happens to you my responsibility?

Because that's how societies work. Human beings band together to look after one another. And yes, us lefties would look after you too. If you don't want to be part of a society, then go and live by yourself on some remote island. Then you can be responsoble for only you.

 

[thestonesfan]

Why can't we just be responsible for ourselves here?

 

[Dann]

In reference to the original question, I never passed through a left-wing stage in my youth. According to that saying I'm a heartless git. So be it. I grew up in a purely capitalist society. I was fortunate enough to be born middle class, and have access to quality education. But as a kid I heard all the talk (by adults in the family) about how money is so fudging' hard to earn, and realized early on that there will be no one to depend upon except yourself. It was hammered into my young mind that pinning your hopes on government is useless. That's why when my college mates were busy joining demonstrations and being beaten up by the police, I was working my butt off (for peanuts too) as an apprentice in some construction firm. But don't get me wrong. My life isn't all drudgery. I had my share of partying too as a teenager.

 

[Kev1916]

Growing up, children have everything they need provided for them, and that's a hard lifestyle to give up. The idea of leaving a life of structure for a life of unknowns is daunting.

==

Well most kids should and do , some dont whats your point here caller?


K