Why Steam is bad for you

[mamba]

Which is kind of the point.. people bought CIV 5 to play with it and figure out what they wanted with it.. not spend time fiddling with a 3rd party program in order to be able to play with civ V

Then stay online, no issue either. Yes, you cannot have your cake and eat it too (go offline in Steam without setting it to offline while you are still online but expect to be offline the next morning when you have no internet for whatever reason).

Seriously, if you have such a flaky connection that this is actually a consideration and not a one-off event, I would complain about my internet provider, not Steam.

 

[Fistalis]

Then stay online, no issue either. Yes, you cannot have your cake and eat it too (go offline in Steam without setting it to offline while you are still online but expect to be offline the next morning when you have no internet for whatever reason).

Seriously, if you have such a flaky connection that this is actually a consideration and not a one-off event, I would complain about my internet provider, not Steam.

I pick option C.. remove steam my system and tell firaxis and other steam required game makers to go do unnatural things to themselves. Thereby retaining Ownership of games i purchase and privacy As a said before this debate is silly.. people who don't like steam won't use it. Those who have and continue to will because they have to or they lose all their steam required games. Some have accepted that steam will be a fact of their gaming life.. others won't.

 

[mamba]

I pick option C.. remove steam my system and tell firaxis and other steam required game makers to go do unnatural things to themselves. Thereby retaining Ownership of games i purchase and privacy

You own a Steam game just as much / little as you own a game you bought on DVD.
As to privacy, are you on facebook ?

The game DVD is going the way of the Dodo, whether you like it or not, so enjoy the last few years of packaged games.

I for one am somewhere along the switch to digital distribution, not much invested in Steam yet (nor any other service), but after having had to reinstall my PC a few times recently (HW issues), I certainly came to appreciate the ease of simply downloading games instead of installing them, patching them, entering registration codes and what have you.

Sure Steam has its flaws (not being able to be offline on a whim, not being able to keep several versions of the same game at different patch levels), but these are minor issues to me (as neither case really ever happens to me). The rather lax copy protection / DRM (at least compared to the likes of Ubi and some limited number of install games, heck, most current games) and the fact that I won't need a DVD in the drive are certainly outweighing these for me.

As far as I can tell most users that are so anti-Steam are because of misinformation, prejudice and paranoia, not because of solid, verifiable issues.

 

[Xiao Xiong]

Which is kind of the point.. people bought CIV 5 to play with it and figure out what they wanted with it.. not spend time fiddling with a 3rd party program in order to be able to play with civ V

It takes you more than 5 minutes to figure out how to download and install a patch. Steam is saving you time here, even if you go to the huge bother of spending an enormously long period of time--a whopping five minutes, maximum--to learn how to put steam in offline mode.

I view your statement as something like, "But I hate Microsoft Windows and I shouldn't have to run it in order to play a game. I had to spend five whole minutes learning how to type in my password!"

At some level you need to learn the basic tools, especially when they are as easy to learn about as steam is.

 

[tom2050]

As far as I can tell most users that are so pro-Steam are because of misinformation, prejudice and paranoia, not because of solid, verifiable issues. <--- statements like this get really old really quick.

Anyways... Steam is almost as bad as the Ubi DRM's which require internet to play, because Steam requires it to install. Not much difference. Steam won't let you re-sell your game (store bought). Steam EULA and Agreements are so distorted against the end-user that there are horror stories out there of people losing hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of games; or getting their accounts locked and being unable to play their games for days and/or weeks.

Steam has a good strategy though, add Comm and MP capability, and that is the only thing that is good about it. Force players to sign up during install so they can advertise to you immediately and boost their # of 'Happy Steam Users'. And put in a whole lot of DRM and anti-resale management software.

Now, lets all say it together.... We Just Love Digital Rights Management!

 

[CivFanMUC]

Yes. Just don't logout of the client. You can close Steam and shutdown your PC without logging out. As long as your username and password are saved in there when you can't get to Steam online the Steam client will authenticate locally and you can get in via offline mode.

If you logout of steam the client will want to connect to steam on the internet to authenticate and then you can't get into offline mode.

thanks.
So if I usually logout of clients before I shut down my PC - I should not do this with Steam.

Seriously, if you have such a flaky connection that this is actually a consideration and not a one-off event, I would complain about my internet provider, not Steam.

Exactly that is the point. It is not a flaky connection. The connection usually is stable, so I/we don't have to bother about "not being able to go online". But IF there's a problem for a day/weekend with the provider (what hopefully won't happen), it is a fact that Steam (and not our ISP) prevents us from playing our OFFLINE SINGLE PLAYER (*) game.


(with option to play MP)

 

[Flavorable]

Steam is no where near any other kind of DRM on the market, that really is just ignorance. I've used Steam since HL2, and have never had a problem with it, all my friends have been using steam for years, and none of them have ever had a problem with it. Civilization 3? My computer has blue screened so many times because of serious issues from that game. Steam itself? If you have an internet connection, regardless of how consistent or powerful, then you have nothing to worry about. You'll have far more technical issues with the game itself then you will with Steam.

 

[Xiao Xiong]

it is a fact that Steam (and not our ISP) prevents us from playing our OFFLINE SINGLE PLAYER (*) game.

No this is not a fact. I take it you either have not actually used steam, or not bothered to educate yourself about offline mode.

All you have to do is click the option to remember your password when you log in. Most of the time that's enough. If you're really paranoid also click the option not to update the game just in case it starts an update right before you lose your internet. Then you can play MP or SP as you please and if you lose your internet and have to relaunch steam you can start it in offline mode until your net comes back.

 

[CivFanMUC]

No this is not a fact. I take it you either have not actually used steam, or not bothered to educate yourself about offline mode.

Just to clearify this:
I usually do not have any problems with my computers. I'm working (and playing) with them since almost 20 years now.
I (think I) do now understand offline-mode. I need to keep my login-data saved in the client or have to be online to enable it, so far so good (or bad).

But I try to look on it of the perspective of newbies. The perspective of users who are happy to remember that they have to click "Start" in order to shutdown Windows. (ok, I'm going over the top right now, but I think you get my point).

From this perspective, I'm comparing Civ IV (no Steam) with Civ V (Steam).
My not-so-computer-experienced User - let's call him John - played Civ IV for a couple of years.
Now he got Civ V. He did not had to bother about being in the interwebs at all to play Civ IV.
If he wanted to play online-games or to surf the web - he did. If his ISP broke down or he went on holidays with his laptop - he just did. And he was able to play Civ IV whenever he wanted and wherever he wanted - without having to think about the interwebs at all - for Civ IV is a Single Player Offline Game. Civ V is the same - or at least - should be the same.

Same scenario as above. John plays Civ V when he wants to. He is curious about this Steam thing, but some expert told him never to save any passwords on his PC for security reasons, so he enters his login-data anytime he wants to play Civ V (which bothers him - but that's acceptable, because John believes the industry that this prevents pirates from playing the game)..
John surfs the internet until suddenly his ISP disconnects him, having a breakdown.
No problem at all - now I can play a round of Civ V, John thinks .... but no way.

If John wants to go on holiday with his laptop - now John has to bother about stupid crap like offline-mode... which he never had to.


See the problem? Civ is a singleplayerofflinegame with option to play MP, period.
And in this scenario Steam is preventing John from playing his singleplayerofflinegame he payed $50 for.

Thats why it sucks why we are forced to use Steam for Civ5.
Steam provides benefits to the game, I accept that. But it had to be optional - not forced.

Savvy?

 

[Maniacal]

As far as I can tell most users that are so pro-Steam are because of misinformation, prejudice and paranoia, not because of solid, verifiable issues. <--- statements like this get really old really quick.

Anyways... Steam is almost as bad as the Ubi DRM's which require internet to play, because Steam requires it to install. Not much difference.

Now, lets all say it together.... We Just Love Digital Rights Management!

Many games these days require an online activation, its pretty normal. UbiDRM will disconnect you if it goes offline and stop you from playing, if you lose your internet while playing a game through Steam you can keep on playing. Steam won't kick you out of the game.

 

[Gunship_Down]

As far as I can tell most users that are so pro-Steam are because of misinformation, prejudice and paranoia, not because of solid, verifiable issues. <--- statements like this get really old really quick.

Anyways... Steam is almost as bad as the Ubi DRM's which require internet to play, because Steam requires it to install. Not much difference. Steam won't let you re-sell your game (store bought). Steam EULA and

This always makes me laugh. It's still illegal to resell games. Always has been. The fact that you pretend like it's some god-given right to steal from the game companies that Steam is trying to take away from you, tells me enough about your reasoning.

You don't OWN the intellectual property, not if you buy in on DVD, not if you buy it via Steam. You just buy one ticket to be allowed to play THEIR game.

 

[Fistalis]

You own a Steam game just as much / little as you own a game you bought on DVD.
As to privacy, are you on facebook ?

The game DVD is going the way of the Dodo, whether you like it or not, so enjoy the last few years of packaged games.

I for one am somewhere along the switch to digital distribution, not much invested in Steam yet (nor any other service), but after having had to reinstall my PC a few times recently (HW issues), I certainly came to appreciate the ease of simply downloading games instead of installing them, patching them, entering registration codes and what have you.

Sure Steam has its flaws (not being able to be offline on a whim, not being able to keep several versions of the same game at different patch levels), but these are minor issues to me (as neither case really ever happens to me). The rather lax copy protection / DRM (at least compared to the likes of Ubi and some limited number of install games, heck, most current games) and the fact that I won't need a DVD in the drive are certainly outweighing these for me.

As far as I can tell most users that are so anti-Steam are because of misinformation, prejudice and paranoia, not because of solid, verifiable issues.

Nothing wrong with digital distribution.. most of my games were purchased through Direct 2 drive which has the one time activation method of most DRMs without the background app overhead. The issue (for me) is more with steams model of combining DRM with Distribution in an easy to use required App that MUST be running anytime you want to play a game. Steam isn't the only digital distribution site. What boggles my mind is people choose steam over the less obtrusive ones.. and companies that choose to integrate their programs directly with steam in an attempt to grow steams market share is whats gonna get users in the end. That and all the BS in the EULA. I mean they can start charging a monthly fee anytime they want to.. lol no thanks.

 

[onedreamer]

you will always be able to download it from Steam as long as Steame exists.

hopefully not long.

 

[CivFanMUC]

It's still legal to resell games. Always has been.

Fixed that for you.

You don't OWN the intellectual property, not if you buy in on DVD, not if you buy it via Steam. You just buy one ticket to be allowed to play THEIR game.

You're fallen into the industrie's ideas here. They want you to believe this. But it isn't so. If you buy a Music-CD you are allowed, no - it is your legal right - to sell it. Same here.

 

[dannythefool]

I can't believe you guys are still arguing that having to be online *once* for activation is somehow worse than the root kit that Civ IV's SafeDisc copy protection installed on your systems!

 

[Gaizokubanou]

John surfs the internet until suddenly his ISP disconnects him, having a breakdown.
No problem at all - now I can play a round of Civ V, John thinks .... but no way.

If John wants to go on holiday with his laptop - now John has to bother about stupid crap like offline-mode... which he never had to.


See the problem? Civ is a singleplayerofflinegame with option to play MP, period.
And in this scenario Steam is preventing John from playing his singleplayerofflinegame he payed $50 for.

Thats why it sucks why we are forced to use Steam for Civ5.
Steam provides benefits to the game, I accept that. But it had to be optional - not forced.

Savvy?

Where are you pulling this nonsense from?

Even with flaky internet connection single player experience is unhindered by steam. I had handful of times where I lost internet connection in middle of playing singleplayer games (including Civ5) that were on steam.

Guess what, it didn't kick me off, I only found out that I went offline after exiting the game, with steam telling me I was on offline mode with my internet connection lost til I restarted my router. Offline mode works automatically and totally newbie friendly.

So stop spreading this bs about requiring internet connection to play or steam causing difficulty to play without internet connection. First, you don't. Second, even if you lose internet connection while playing, it doesn't cause problem for you.

 

[CivFanMUC]

So stop spreading this bs about requiring internet connection to play or steam causing difficulty to play without internet connection. First, you don't. Second, even if you lose internet connection while playing, it doesn't cause problem for you.

So if I
1) haven't saved my login-data
2) haven't set steam to offline mode last time I was online
3) do not have an internet connection right at this moment
I can start the game? (with all 3 of this points being true?)

 

[Gaizokubanou]

So if I
1) haven't saved my login-data
2) haven't set steam to offline mode last time I was online
3) do not have an internet connection right at this moment
I can start the game? (with all 3 of this points being true?)

What your friend "John" needs is a freaking reading comprehension course if he knows he wants to play offline and not save login-data.

"Don't save account credentials on this computer

This option is recommended for public computers.
Note that this will disable 'Offline Mode.'"

It's there right next to the checkbox to disable auto-login.

 

[CivFanMUC]

if he knows he wants to play offline and not save login-data.

See?

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Without Steam, John did not have to bother about "online" "offline-mode" "save login-data" or other steam-related bs.
He was able to start his (I'm repeating myself) single player offline game whenever and wherever he wanted.

That's why steam IS causing difficulty to play without internet connection - because there would be no difficulty without steam.

And that's the answer to the topic. That's why Steam is bad (for me, him, so many others)

 

[Senethro]

The difficulty here is John's inability to click a checkbox.