Why the hell isn't Shaka Zulu in this

[Mesix]

I think a scout replacement for an Apache UU would be cool. Even better would be a later UU which the scout can upgrade to (keeping scout promotions of course). A hit and run light fighter or perhaps ranged unit. Maybe a crossbow replacement with less strength and the ability to move after firing and retaining the scout ability to ignore terrain movement costs.

As far as the Zulu go, they have been included in almost every other version of Civ. I really don't miss Shaka much and am glad that the designers mixed it up a bit with other noteworthy minor civs getting their due.

I'm a bit tired of having the Japanese Shogunate in the game. A more modern Meiji Era Japan would be a refreshing change for civ.

 

[Flying Mathias]

The Zulu, while a fan favourite, aren't a civilization in terms of being a kingdom or empire, unless you count South Africa.

A much better sub-Saharan Civ would be the Kongo. They were a kingdom with large holdings from around 1400-1900.

 

[PhilBowles]

Really? ....... why on earth didn't they just get a list of village names or the individual tribes. The Zulus must of named there villages.


I don't think it maters much that they weren't really a civilization considering every civilization starts of in prehistoric times and the game has allot of "what if" history in it ( what if Alexander the great invaded America and so forth ). Also the Polynesians and Arabs are more of an ethnic group than an actual civilization. In general allot of non civilizations are in civilization.

Yes, the Polynesians are one of those civs-that-shouldn't-be on much the same basis, as are the Celts. But the Polynesians have one selling point the Zulus (and Celts) don't: they are genuinely unique (I love the way Moai work, and simply the modus operandi of the civ). The Zulus would just be another bunch of low-tech warriors. The Arabs as presented are somewhat of an agglomeration of different Arab societies, but Arabia is a discrete region with a long, shared cultural tradition and a specific role in the development of civilization. You can't really isolate the modern boundaries of Iraq specifically, say, as being the focal "Arab" situation, or of Saudi or the modern boundaries of the Arab states drawn up by colonial administrators. Arabia is more similar to the Maya than the Polynesians in that regard - lots of essentially independent caliphates and sultanates with no single unifying ruler, but sharing a common culture, trade network, religious system and focus.

Point taken, they didn't build great wonders or large cities. However i think it should come down to game play and not history. History should be an influence but not a driving force in the choice of civ. In the Zulu i think there would be a chance for a civ with fast infantry and ignoring ZOC (to represent Shaka's horns of the bull tactics) which would separate the Zulu from other any other civ.

Not very distinctively - Denmark gets fast infantry, besides a warrior civ with fast units is no more original if those units are impis than it is if they're some variety of cavalry. And ignoring zones of control is also not interesting or game-changing enough to be distinctive.

Also Africa needs a new civ, even if it is the Zulu (id prefer the the kingdom of the Kongo, frankly anything to make the TSL earth maps more uniform and spread out)

I'm not sure why Kongo has so many fans, other than for being in a previous Civ game as a scenario civ. It's no doubt deserving enough, but it doesn't seem a particularly obvious first choice of missing African civ. I'd still like the Merina - hey, you get to stick a civ on Madagascar in your TSL maps (and while we're about it having mainland Asia moderately crowded with big gaps in Indochina and Indonesia is pretty odd too).

 

[Flying Mathias]

(and while we're about it having mainland Asia moderately crowded with big gaps in Indochina is pretty odd too).

Siam?

 

[Mesix]

If the Impi would be a fast gunpowder replacement unit which ignores terrain, what makes it any different from the Minutmen?

 

[Flying Mathias]

If the Impi would be a fast gunpowder replacement unit which ignores terrain, what makes it any different from the Minutmen?

Wouldn't the Impi be spearmen?

 

[Civciv5]

Maybe the producers are becoming wiser in their civ choices for the game.
The Zulu Kingdom was a tiny nation smaller then Belgium that only ended up being defeated by the British (that's why they are famous). But they didn't do anything important or great for history.
While the Kingdom of Kongo or the Kingdom of Zimbabwe were actually empires and accomplished things.
If we are adding each ethnic group in the world,then millions of civs are going to be in the game.

 

[nokmirt]

Wouldn't the Impi be spearmen?

It could be, but riflemen vs. spears would not be too interesting in my book. They did learn quickly how to use rifles too. Although, sadly, they were far from good shots. The only use Zulu's had with rifles was an intimidation factor. A British soldier at Rorke's Drift, "Look at that lot out there, they've captured our bloody rifles. Put your bloody heads down chaps! Bloody hell"

A kind of unique fear and intimidation, is what Zulu's gave to humanity. Which has been built into legend the same as the Mongols, or Huns. This is why most people know who the Zulu's were, and most know little of Kongo. The Zulu's were quite unforgiving in war. They would, kill each other by the thousands, with one word from their king. Tribal genocide! Hmmm, a bad bunch there.

 

[Gehennas]

Actually, Zulu had no civilization. They became so popular only because of one battle where 22000 warriors armed with spears were able to beat 1400 riflemen, whose rifles were unreliable because of the climate.

Note that I am also disagree with including Huns and Mongols into the game. I think it should me much better solution to use Huns and Mongols as non-playable civilizations without cities but with a large army coming from unexplored parts of the map.

I just wonder why there is no Poland (as a Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth) in the game.

 

[Mesix]

I think the Zulu are a part of Civ because the miniseries Shaka Zulu was popular on TV about the same time as the game series started.

 

[The_Quasar]

In answer to the opening troll, err.. post; I think the current civs all deserve their places for various reasons... it seems Fraxis have done a good job on the civs.

Whether the Zulus will be in a future expansion, is not so important, as long as the standard already set very high, for new civs, is kept. However, I think it likely they will appear at some stage. Personally, I'd prefer to see Kongo before the Zulus.

Have patience padawan!

 

[Civciv5]

Note that I am also disagree with including Huns and Mongols into the game. I think it should me much better solution to use Huns and Mongols as non-playable civilizations without cities but with a large army coming from unexplored parts of the map.

The Huns and Mongols were semi-sedentary and later sedentary.
The Huns didn't found cities,but the Mongols did (Karakorum,Avarga...) and the Mongols had great cities like Khanbaliq(Beijing,capital),Shangdu(Xanadu)...

 

[labrynianrebel]

OMFG.

Like really... The only african nation besides eithiopia to ever take it to Europe.

Dervish State says hi.

 

[Naresh]

If nothing else Zulu deserves to be in the game based on its long standing Civ history.

I'd much rather see the infamous return of Shaka and the Zulu horde than a civ such as Kongo, which... to be frank, I know nothing about, compared to every other civ in game, which I have at least heard of.

If it came down to a choice, I'd choose a civ like Bohemia or Poland over Kongo simply because I've heard of them...

 

[hudders]

But, then again, how many civs would we have in the game if it were only ones you'd heard of before you'd played any civilization games?

Civ is a great teaching tool when it comes to these lesser-known empires.

 

[Civciv5]

lesser-known empires

Exactly!
Take as example Indonesia,they had large empires,built great monuments,were influential and are important and great. And it has been completely ignored in the Civilization series!
A lot of civilizations deserve to be in before the Zulu.

 

[Naresh]

But, then again, how many civs would we have in the game if it were only ones you'd heard of before you'd played any civilization games?

Civ is a great teaching tool when it comes to these lesser-known empires.

Still quite a few. I wouldn't call myself a history buff, but I have a good general knowledge of such things. We'd have all the current civ 5 civs in if we went by "have I heard of them? if yes, they are in game"

if it was a case of "is it a civ you know something about, enough to make a UA and 2 UU/UB" then maybe 2/3 of the civs would be in...

As for civ as a learning tool, I'd agree. It's part of the reason I love the game. Often during MP games when I am waiting for a move to happen I peruse the civopedia.

Europa Universalis 3 taught me a lot about the medieval world.

 

[PhilBowles]

Siam?

Do they spawn in Indochina on TSL maps? Sukothai itself is just above Peninsular Thailand, so they should spawn on the Malay Peninsula rather than in the 'bulge' of Indochina. If not, the peninsula's a bit of a gap...

I think the Zulu are a part of Civ because the miniseries Shaka Zulu was popular on TV about the same time as the game series started

I always assumed it was the film that gave them a high profile - they were, I've always assumed based on the civ representation in the first game, in because Sid wanted at least one civ to represent every continent (counting the Aztecs as honorary South Americans despite the fact that their realm was fully within North American Mexico, not even close enough to the Yucatan to be arguably Central American), and Zulus were an African group people had heard of.

Though since you mention it they are an unusual choice from an American perspective - the protagonist in one of many minor wars in colonial British history long after American independence would normally be pretty obscure to American audiences, I'd have thought.

Exactly!
Take as example Indonesia,they had large empires,built great monuments,were influential and are important and great. And it has been completely ignored in the Civilization series!

Yes, Indonesia is what I'd see as the big gap in Civ to date, they'd definitely occur to me before the Kongo. But then, Indonesia has a long history of being essentially ignored by the Western general public - even today it's probably the most important country most people know nothing about, as a major regional power (and Cold War buffer), one of the world's largest nations by population (and the largest Muslim one), and a key Western ally for an entire area (although warmer relations with China have lessened its importance in that regard).

 

[thadian]

Indonesia, Kongo and Zulu would be great - but i fear the dlc SCAM has polluted Zulu out of the game to be sold later.

Just wait, in about 2 months, Zulu will be released as a DLC with a worthless scenario and i bet their UA will be something about gaining faith when killing units akin to monty's culture gain.

 

[Naresh]

Indonesia, Kongo and Zulu would be great - but i fear the dlc SCAM has polluted Zulu out of the game to be sold later.

Just wait, in about 2 months, Zulu will be released as a DLC with a worthless scenario and i bet their UA will be something about gaining faith when killing units akin to monty's culture gain.

I enjoy those scenarios.

Sure, I'd appreciate something different to "total war" scenarios, but they are otherwise fun and challenging