Why were British longbows not used in the 17th and 18th centuries?

Atlas14

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Why were British longbows not used in the 17th and 18th centuries?

I was wondering if some people could answer this. The British longbows were so effective against the armoured knights of the French, what is to say they would not have been more useful than muskets against un-armoured infantry in the 17th and 18th centuries. The longbow was so much cheaper than the musket, took a lot less time to train with, and had a much greater rate of fire. The longbows had a considerably large distance of fire and were more accurrate than the early muskets and rifles. Longbows were stealthier than muskets since they did not use black powder, which gave off smoke, which in turn would give away their position.
Why would longbowmen not be employed in 17th and 18th century armies?
 
it took years to perfect trianign with a long bow, it might take a few days at most to train how to use a gun.
 
Longbows were more simple, and the common person was issued them under I believe Edward I. Bows were used for hunting and other common day expieriences. Muskets required so much more time in between shots, where as longbows could be shot as fast as the man could draw another arrow. Muskets were also very unpredictable. They were an inaccurate shot, and they could very easily back fire or explode in the barrell, killing the shooter.
 
I think they switched to muskets because they were new, and cool, and made a really cool BANG when you pulled the trigger

all kidding aside, I don't think it was the musket that brought the long bow down, I think it had something to do with an invention called Artillery and improvement on Armor.. I respectfully guide you to this link http://free.prohosting.com/~guarana/saa/articles/decline/decline.html
 
Ahh..I see. Thanks Sabo ;)
 
I believe someone had once posted extensively on this. Apparently it took whole lifetimes to train up a longbowman to a certain level of proficiency. Whereas for musketeers, it's much easier and faster.

Also, muskets can be used as melee weopans if needed, esp when outfitted with bayonets (they had those yet?). Not so for longbows...
 
XIII said:
I believe someone had once posted extensively on this. Apparently it took whole lifetimes to train up a longbowman to a certain level of proficiency. Whereas for musketeers, it's much easier and faster.

Also, muskets can be used as melee weopans if needed, esp when outfitted with bayonets (they had those yet?). Not so for longbows...

Agreed, it took a lifetime to train a good longbowmen.

p.s. i believe bayonets were@1680ad
 
Atlas14, have you ever tried to use a bow and a rifle?
I tried both. Of course modern rifles are more accurate than a musket, but I can hit the target at a good distance. With the bow, I often miss.

Musket ARE a lot easier to use with few training that bow. It's not because the weapon is simplier in its conception that it's easier to use.

Do you know how to use a eletronic calculator to compute 456789789*46132132+432131?

Can you do the same with an Abacus (you know the Chinese thing with little balls that they use to compute)? Which of these tools is the simpliest?
 
ben franklin wanted the american colonial army in 1776 to use longbows!
 
Also there was a distinct change in the way of life in Britain people during the 100 years war etc... used to train every sunday and there where local archery competitions, these werent around in the 17th and 18th centuries and as it took a life time of training to become a good longbowmen it made much more since to train with muskets then longbows
 
Long bows were abandoned in 1595 by Queen Elizabeth I. They became useless during the 16th century.

They had a long range and a high rate of fire. But new weapons were used for that.

For long range bombards and cannons were used. Cannons were used since the 14th century (1346 in Crécy for example). Their range exceeded the range of the bow.
For short range and for armor piercing the arquebuses and muskets were used. Concetrated gunfire from a range of 50 meters was deadly against every attack. Pikemen were used to protect the musketmen when they were reloading.

Additionally the longbow was difficult to handle. You needed great strength to fire it. With a standard english long bow you pulled 50 kilograms (!!). I once pulled a 30-kg-bow and that was not that easy; I used a 20-kg after that but it was still no picknick.
You had to train every week for several hours with it.

A musket was easy. Just give it to a guy and let him make a little "aiming". After the musketman is used to the feedback when a musket fires he can be used in battle - takes one day. At least it didn't take me any longer to get used to it when I was with the army.

After combined artillery-pikemen-musketmen-armies defeated some old fashioned armies with knight, crossbowmen and longbowmen it became common to use guns. And mass production makes stuff cheap so there was no cost problem...

Source: "A history of warfare" by Viscount Montgomery of Alamein
 
After the musketman is used to the feedback when a musket fires he can be used in battle - takes one day. At least it didn't take me any longer to get used to it when I was with the army.

They issued you a musket! :lol:
 
Oh - little mistake there. :)

Despite all you heard, the German Army still uses modern rifles...

I just meant that handling a (general, not-specified) rifle is very easy. You can learn to use it on a single day of intensive training. Whether it's a musket or a storm rifle is not important in that matter. While you learn using a rifle in a single day, it takes years to master a long bow.

Really - we don't use muskets! I swear!! ;)
 
Yeah, you guys are right. I forgot the strength it takes for a longbowmen. :crazyeye:
 
As has been said, long period of training, and constant practice, anything else would make the user of the bow all but hopeless :)
 
The longbow had a range of about 200 - 300 yards and fires much faster than 3 rounds per minute (standard fire rate for muskets in a trained soldier's hands). The battles at the time, due to lack of accuray and the number of ammunition a musketmen could carry, the musketmen shot at each other at a range of 50 yards. So, on paper, it would look like that using longbows would have been better than muskets until the Mexican war and Civil War.

However, that wasn't the case. As many have said, it took 1/2 a life time to train a soldier that can fire the English longbow 200 - 300 yards with some accuracy, while in a training camp it would take about a week to get used to firing a musket 3 rounds a minute. (a day if you do nothing else, but soldiers at camps needed to work on other techniques: bayonet charge, counter-cavalry formations and bayonet thrusts, marching in formation, etc.)

Secondly, the Longbowmen had almost no melee ability. They used daggers for self protection. Except Agincourt, where the French Men-At-Arms were stuck in the mud allowing the no armor Longbowmen to use their dagger efficiently, the Longbowmen could not fight and win a melee battle. During the 17th and 18th and early 19th centuries, a bayonet charge was actually more effective than vollies. After fixing a bayonet onto a musket, a musket can now used both as a gun and as a short spear. You can't do these things with a Longbow.

Now as for the Longbow's long range ability, it was inferior as cannons were introduced. During the battle of Formigny in 1450 of the Hundred Years War, the French proved this point by disrupting the English Longbow formation with cannon fire from out of the Longbow's range. You can say the Longbow wasn't replaced by arquebuses and muskets, but by cannons, which also replaced siege weapons.

There were also other little things about the Longbow. A longbowmen has to fight standing up, in other words, he cannot entrench. The musketmen rarely entrenched during the pitch battles that lasted up to the Napoleonic Wars, but they can when they want (kneeling down behind stone walls and such. Neither musketsmen nor longbowmen can fight lying down, but at least musketmen can kneel)

A bowmen has to keep their bowstrings dry or the weapon would be much less effective. Same as the musketmen have to keep their muskets dry, but a longbow string is exposed while a musket barrel is not. Even worst the string cannot be moistened either while the the musketmen just have to worry about the powder getting wet.

Back to the training length problem. With the introduction of larger, more massive armies, the longbowmen can not be trained fast enough to meet the demand of troops while the musketmen can.

Lastly, longbow has to fire in open space so their bows and strings wouldn't be tangled in vines, branches, undergrowth, etc. The musket didn't have the limitation.



Did you know: Though accurate to some extent, generals counted on the longbowmen to fire a blanket of arrows - a volley - at enemy massed formations rather than firing to hit individual soldier. It is the same thing as an artillery barrage, fire at the formation with a blanket of fire, not an individual.
 
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