Why were the Irish treated so badly during the 1800s in America?

Riesstiu IV

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As immigrants to America, the Irish were treated poorly. Employment ads began to contain the phrase, "Irish need not apply." Boarding houses and other public establishment might display signs which read, " No dogs or Irish allowed." The Irish were blamed for outbreaks of disease. Anti-Irish and anti-Catholic riots broke out in New York and Boston. Churches, convents and orphanages were attacked and burned. Even black slaves were more highly regarded than the Irish.
 
They were Catholic.
This is undesirable because Catholics used to breed like rabbits; especially the Irish.
Bloody, disgusting wars between Catholics and Protestants were not yet long in the past.

Also, the English Monarchy was trying to supplant any sort of Irish autonomy for centuries, which perpetuated a loathing of a people who were seen as industrially inferior and crude.
This Anglo sentiment was merely carried over since most of the Americans at this time were still of English extraction, though the descendants of Germans and Scottish were already sizable populations.
 
Every new group of immigrants were treated badly when they first came to America.

It's the same in every country, it's human nature.
 
Because they all have red hair, which makes them easy to distinguish, and they all drink too much. :p
 
At that time, they were the 'new folks on the block'. The other immigrant groups were well established and didn't need another threat of losing employment. The Catholic beliefs didn't help either.
 
Every new group of immigrants were treated badly when they first came to America.

Exactly. A few other things went against the Irish in America as well:

1. They were primarily, as Mescalhead noted, Roman Catholics. In the 19th century, calling yourself a Roman Catholic in Protestant America was like calling yourself a Communist in 20th century America. There are still small pockets of extreme Evangelical groups in secluded parts of the American South and Midwest today who talk the language of Papist conspiracy theories; in the 19th century they were mainstream. The future President Millard Fillmore for instance, while in Buffalo, N.Y., founded several societies and organizations designed to maintain Protestant leadership and society in the face of what they saw as a(n Irish) Catholic immigration onslaught. The Chautauqua Institute for instance was founded in this same "keep-the-Catholics-out" movement - though happily that institution gradually developed into a more humane scholarly institute. BTW, in early Colonial and American history there was a significant Protestant Irish immigration, especially to the American South, and nobody said a thing about it at the time.

2. Which brings the second issue; namely that it wasn't merely a matter of a few Irishmen showing up; in a ten year period (1845-55) 1.5 million Irish showed up on American shores, most of them desitute and very desperate. Now, we know the Irish certainly had valid reasons for leaving Ireland - that little mass-starvation thing we call the Potato Famine - but any country that receives 1.5 million foreignors in a ten year space is going to develop some sort of social reaction.

And keep in mind that from the point of view of the Protestant and general American population of the mid-19th century, their worst nightmares did indeed come true; it's just that modern Americans don't think that's such a bad thing. According to the 2000 census, Americans with an Irish ethnic heritage are the second-largest ethnic group in the U.S., topping some 43 million (of a total population of 281 million, or about 15% of the population). Roman Catholics are now one of the largest Christian groups in the country; if you walk quietly near a 19th century American cemetery you can probably hear them spinning in their graves.

3. Third point - which is that well, they were Irish. The Irish were seen as the bottom rung of the British Empire's social hierarchy, as low as low gets, and the Americans of the 19th century were still imbibed with many British prejudices. Imagine - Indians and Burmese were seen as worthy of attention and study by British scholars in the 18th and 19th centuries, but, with only a few exceptions, not the Irish. During the American Revolution one of the rallying cries for the rebels was that London was treating her American colonies like the Irish, and Americans repeatedly made a comparison between the "Intolerable Acts" of 1774 imposing martial law on Boston and the English suppression of the Irish Revolt in the mid-17th century - with the point being that London had no right to treat English colonials the same way as Irishmen. (It was quite OK to treat Irishmen that way, just not Americans!) It should therefore be no surprise that a tinge of English anti-Irish chauvenism should have survived in the Americans.

4. Final point - which is that, well, they were Irish. The Irish have merged into American society so well, and mainstream American culture has embraced them so strongly that it's difficult to imagine a non-Irish America - but this just masks the reality that there was a greater social and cultural difference during the 19th century between Irish and Anglo-Americans. Modern Boston may revel in its Irish roots but its earliest roots are from a bunch of wacko English Protestant extremists. The Irish who came to American shores were much less European, much more secluded from Continental history and culture than modern Irish are. This isn't a value judgement; it's an observation of how different they truly were to Anglo-Americans.
 
Very good analysis, Vrylakas. Extremely good. If you mentioned a tad bit about the financial and social part of the equation (the Irish being of extremely low economical stature and automatically joining the lowest ranks of the American society, manning gangs etc.) it would be an absolutely perfect analysis. :goodjob:
 
I agree, good job Vrylakas.

Although I would have added that they came across the water like a swarm of locusts consuming every spud and potato based food in the country in a matter of days.

After that they drank every drop of alchol in as many days and then started fighting with each other.

The natives weren't happy.
 
Well, Gael, I didn't want to bring up that they were all just a bunch of carrot-topped, drunken, brawling potato-farmers, but now that you mention it... :D ;)
 
There has still only been 1 Catholic president of the US

All white protestant males save 1, hows that for Diversity!
 
Originally posted by thestonesfan
Because they all have red hair, which makes them easy to distinguish, and they all drink too much. :p

:p

Originally posted by Vrylakas
Well, Gael, I didn't want to bring up that they were all just a bunch of carrot-topped, drunken, brawling potato-farmers, but now that you mention it... :D ;)

:p
 
Quote Josiah Strong:
'It is not necessary to argue to those for whom I write that the two great needs of mankind, that all men may be lifted up into the light of the highest Christian civilization, are, first, a pure, spiritual Christianity, and second, civil liberty. Without controversy, these are the forces which, in the past, have contributed most to the elevation of the human race, and they must continue to be, in the future, the most efficient ministers to its progress. It follows, then, that the Anglo-Saxon, as the great representative of these two ideas, the despositary of these two greatest blessings, sustains peculiar relations to the world's future, is divinely commissioned to be, in a peculiar sense, his brother's keeper. Add to this the fact of his rapidly increasing strength in modem times, and we have well-nigh a demonstration of his destiny.'

It was the Irish who taught the anglo/saxons literacy and christianity while they were driving the welsh into the hills. Anyway, this guy sums up the ideas that were prevalent among the 'anglo-saxons' on both sides of the atlantic during the 1800's.
Heres a link that deals with religious conflicts between chatholic and prodestant in the US around that time that mentions the huge migration of the chatholic Irish as a major threat to the anglo/Protestant foothold on power.
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/perspectives/seventeen.html

Also if you look at 'Punch' cartoons you'll notice the attidutes were very much the same in England towards the Irish at that time too. Actually they still had those 'No Irish, No Blacks, No dogs' signs up in the 70s.
I'm sure that had a lot of influence on American attitudes too.
http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html
 
'This untitled cartoon shows the Irish as obese, wasteful, violent, drug abusing monkeys. John Bull (Britain) shows Uncle Sam that he will take care of the troublemaker'.
 

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I'm not sure I agree with your point that the Irish were the bottom of the Imperial hierarchy. Prior to the potato famine approximately 50 % of the British Army were recruited in Ireland. In the days before effective policing - if a bunch of English ne'er do wells decided to have a riot about something or other it was big Irish guys with guns who would resolve the situation to the authorities satisfaction. This bred quite alot of resentment amongst the mob against Irish people in general.
When the potato famine struck it may have required rationing or some such unpopular draconian measure on the mainland to avert the disaster. Politicians subsequently decided to leave the Irish to their fate rather than take on the mob even though the Irish had for sometime been the Empires enforcers. The potato famine was a recruiting disaster for the British Army and it would seem that the only people advocating doing something about the situation in Ireland were soldiers - who were of course ignored. As it was the Americans got lots of big Irish guys to come over and kill lots of injuns for them.
 
Service in the british army was not a prestige position. Typically, non commisioned soldiers were seen as the lowest rung a person could fall to in British society.

Just because you use them as rankers in your army doesnt mean you accord them a modicum of respect.
 
I didn't say that the British Army offered much in the way of prestige. Neither does being British police officer today but it does offer some power and responsibility and of course they are hated for it by some elements of British society.
Vrylakas states that the colonials did not wish to be treated in the same manner as the Irish. One interpretation of that is the colonials did not want the colonies turned into a harsh recruiting ground for the Empire where an individuals best option is to join the military. A certain amount of suppression and denial of opportuinity is required to make an ideal recruiting ground.
 
Vrylakas states that the colonials did not wish to be treated in the same manner as the Irish. One interpretation of that is the colonials did not want the colonies turned into a harsh recruiting ground for the Empire where an individuals best option is to join the military.

No, you've misinterpreted something here. The critical distinction for the American rebels was that while they (or their immediate ancestors) had largely migrated of their own free will to the American colonies, the Irish (as an example) were a conquered people. Their status in the British Empire was involuntary, while the Americans were (as far as they understood) still Englishmen.

I made the contrast between the Irish and the Indians (of India) because, in British eyes, the Indians, while still a conquered (and non-Christian) people, had at least built in their past a great civilization with all the trappings - and if there was any language that 18th and 19th century London understood, it was empire. The Irish, in contrast, had (again, in British eyes) accomplished little more than small tribal kingdoms that warred with one another incessantly before being overrun by Vikings, Normans, Scots and Englishmen. We today know a larger truth (which Gael summarized above) and we also can point to many prominent British political and cultural figures who were either born Irish or had Irish lineage but to 18th and 19th century Brits, the Irish looked like a rag-tag holdover group from Neolithic times. The British (nor Americans, as this thread attests) were not shy about their anti-Irish attitudes, and they left us plenty of evidence of it in their newspapers, journals, laws, and public conduct. I'm not sure about the British but in America I strongly suspect that it was my kind who saved the Irish from ignomy and allowed them to assimilate fully into mainstream society, because from about 1920 with huge waves of southern and Eastern Europeans showing up on American shores suddenly the Irish didn't look so foreign.

As for recruitment for the British military, that was almost never a concern for Americans, colonial or otherwise, with the possible exception of the 1796-1814 period when the Royal Navy purposely seized American sailors and impressed them into British service - but that was a political act. The 18th century British regularly gathered soldiers from Ireland indeed, but also from the slums of Britain itself. They however rarely harrassed the colonies for soldiers, except when local emergencies - like in the North American portion of the Seven Years War - required.

And ultimately, as for the comparison between the Irish and the early Americans, they (the Americans) were pointing not at the Irish in general but in how their rebellions were suppressed by the British and the resulting iron fist with which London ruled Ireland. The basic point of the American Revolution, the basic quarrel between the Americans and London, was over sovereignty. The Irish clearly had none, and while Americans were quite content with the Irish having none they feared London was trying to deprive their fellow Englishmen (the colonists) of their sovereignty. To paraphrase the Americans, they thought London was beginning to treat them like they were dogs - i.e., the Irish (in their eyes).

Nowadays we treat both dogs and Irish better. ;)
 
Gael, you can thank me any time for doing my bit by migrating to America to remind the Yanks how similar the Irish are to Anglos, at least when compared to us Eastern European heathen. I think in the least you owe me a beer.
 
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